Photoshop question

  • starqueen
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Post 3+ Months Ago

didnt know what forum it'd be best to put this in.

A company I know is going to buy Photoshop and theyre wanting to know the exact differences between Photoshop 7 and Photoshop CS. I... cannot find the specs on it. Any help would be appreciated :wink:
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Post 3+ Months Ago

  • digitalMedia
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Post 3+ Months Ago

You're in the right place. :)


http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop ... 0highlight

I seriously doubt that they would need to get CS if price is an issue. PS7 is quite robust. IMO.
  • starqueen
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Post 3+ Months Ago

okay the person is still asking more questions, lol..

1. on windows 2000 terminal server, are there any issues on product activiation? would it need activation for each session?
- purchasing any version, what are the liscensing restrictions for terminal server? im thinking its per machine maybe...

2. more than tech specs (i already viewed the adobe page, thnx dm), id rather ask for differences from ppl who use it daily between 7 and CS(8).

if it were my decision id say that ps 6 would be the best but ya know... anyway.
  • digitalMedia
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Post 3+ Months Ago

PS7 is considerably better than PS6.

PS6 was very buggy and introduced some big ideas and changes in some metaphors. PS7 fixed the buginess and refined the big ideas.

PSCS adds several new components. Those new components listed in that page are the notable ones. Text-to-path is something that was previously done in Illustrator, and imported into Photoshop. Exporting to SWF is a great addition too.

I don't ever close PS on my machine. I've used PS since ver 3. I've had, and used every release of it since then. I say if they have to stop and consider it for a moment, even ask a consultant for input, then they should get 7 and save a few bucks.

I have no idea about your terminal server question.
  • starqueen
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Post 3+ Months Ago

PS6.5 was personally my favorite, ive been working with PS since ver2. PS7 does something much better for artists though considering the new brush system, it resembles corel much better now... i still like 6.5 better

thanx for your input... :)
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Post 3+ Months Ago

if it is a company forget saving a few bucks considering companies can right that off as a business expense . . . that said big thing about CS is to work woth digital pictures digital cameras dont rake pictures ame way as film digital cameras have exposure problems that CS is more inclined to working with that said if it is for desing DM is right if its for rpofesional picture editing i would go CS just my point of veiw
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Post 3+ Months Ago

oh so sad, adobe sent me an email discussing the differences between the two (they want us to upgrade) and I deleted it a while back. adobe forum is a good place to do a search and chances are you will find something :D
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I have CS, but at the moment, I'm not sure I can detail many differences yet. My last version was 6 and my new one (CS) is on a Win2K server. I'll see if I can add some extra info tomorrow when I get to work. The primary noticeable difference is the activation key. Other than that I haven't noticed much yet other than being faster...but that may be a processor speed difference.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

This might help get you started:
http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/faq.html
  • starqueen
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Post 3+ Months Ago

i appreciate everyone's feedback here :)

the person im talking to still has more questions but i doubt anyone can answer:
"My main concern is how Photo will be in a terminal session??? That, and what are the licensing terms when running it on a Terminal Server??? Ie, the application is installed one time, but how many can run it at once? Will the single install instance of the files permit multiple users to have open access to them? Do we have to purchase a 5-user license Photoshop for this case???"

i don't know if anyone can help answer that question, any feedback on that is welcome, but when they purchase it and find out ill post the outcome on it for sure.
thnx guys
  • Smilingwolf
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Usually on this type of program, you have the right to install on only one machine.
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Well, the licenses are for one concurrent use at a time.

You could therefore, legally, install it on 10 machines, but you could only have it running on a single machine at once. If somebody wanted to run it, they'd have to check it wasn't being ran on any other machine owned by the registrant of the software.

We spoke directly to Intuit about this over using Quickbooks on a local office network I recently setup.

They stated to us that with a single user license of Quickbooks, we could install the software on all 4 PCs, however only one system on the network would be able to use it at any one time.

It worked out that buying a 5-user license copy was only about $50 more expensive than buying 4 separate copies (it was like $1359 for the 5-user license, compared to $1316 total for 4 single-user copies) so that's what they ended up getting for the office in the end. They don't need all 4 licenses, but it'll give them room to expand in the future.

This is how most commercial licenses work. You can install on multiple PCs, but only run a single copy at a time.
  • Smilingwolf
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I copied/pasted this information from the PS 7 Readme file. I hope it answers your questions.

Windows NT

Adobe Photoshop 7.0 can be run under Windows NT® for Intel compatible systems only. It will not run under other types of Windows NT such as Windows NT for DEC Alpha or Windows NT for PowerPC®.

Adobe Photoshop 7.0 requires Windows NT Service Pack 6a or higher.

Windows 2000

Adobe Photoshop 7.0 requires Windows 2000 Service Pack 2 or higher.

Running Adobe Photoshop Over a Network

Adobe Photoshop 7.0 is not designed (nor was it tested) to be run when Windows is multi-launched over a network. If you want to run Adobe Photoshop on multiple Windows systems, make sure that each system has its own copy of Windows and Adobe Photoshop installed on the hard drive.
  • Axe
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Post 3+ Months Ago

If they're worried about costs of licenses (which I would be at $650/copy for Photoshop CS), tell them to have a look at OpenSource alternatives like GIMP.

Ok, so GIMP may not be able to address all aspects of what needs to be done, but it can accomplish many of the same tasks as Photoshop (even though the process to do so may be slightly different).

If most of the tasks can be adequately done in GIMP, then you may not need any Photoshop licenses at all, or maybe just one to perform some of the tasks GIMP can't.
  • starqueen
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Post 3+ Months Ago

thanks axe
  • tetsuo13
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I was the person originally referenced in the first post. This thread is really turning out to be a good one. I would like to clear up a few things about licensing though, before this turns really off topic.
Axe wrote:
Well, the licenses are for one concurrent use at a time.
The problem is that this will be installed on a Terminal Server, so there will be only one installation. What about in the licensing does it say about multiple Terminal Sessions using Photoshop? Will a single instance binary of Photoshop allow multiple users read permission??
Quote:
You could therefore, legally, install it on 10 machines, but you could only have it running on a single machine at once. If somebody wanted to run it, they'd have to check it wasn't being ran on any other machine owned by the registrant of the software.

We spoke directly to Intuit about this over using Quickbooks on a local office network I recently setup.

They stated to us that with a single user license of Quickbooks, we could install the software on all 4 PCs, however only one system on the network would be able to use it at any one time.
I've dealt with this exact situation myself. With the single-user version of QuickBooks, you can install it over an entire company and every one of those computers can be inside it at once, but only *one* may have the DB open for read/write access. This is the key part you left out: QuickBooks, single-user, is /designed/ to be just that -- single user. There is no way you can have two separate QuickBook installations sharing a single DB on the network unless you opt for the multi-user version.
Quote:
It worked out that buying a 5-user license copy was only about $50 more expensive than buying 4 separate copies (it was like $1359 for the 5-user license, compared to $1316 total for 4 single-user copies) so that's what they ended up getting for the office in the end. They don't need all 4 licenses, but it'll give them room to expand in the future.
It's not $50 more expensive, it allows you to have 5 people simultaneously accessing the same DB and making changes to it, this cannot be accomplished with single-user version. Period. The $1316 compared to $1359 are two completely different things.
Quote:
This is how most commercial licenses work. You can install on multiple PCs, but only run a single copy at a time.
Incorrect. Most commercial licenses work by per-CPU or on a volume user basis. You can buy one copy of WindowsXP and install it on 50 computers. If only one out of the 50 is ever on, does that mean you're still in good terms of the contract (the EULA)? No. You *must* have a unique OEM key for each installation. The reason Intuit didn't mind was because their software just won't /allow/ multiple users on a single-user DB.

Please read your EULAs a little more carefully, especially if you're in charge of making these decisions for a company. The BSA just loves to get their hands on this sort of behavior.
Quote:
If they're worried about costs of licenses (which I would be at $650/copy for Photoshop CS), tell them to have a look at OpenSource alternatives like GIMP.

Ok, so GIMP may not be able to address all aspects of what needs to be done, but it can accomplish many of the same tasks as Photoshop (even though the process to do so may be slightly different).

If most of the tasks can be adequately done in GIMP, then you may not need any Photoshop licenses at all, or maybe just one to perform some of the tasks GIMP can't.
I've used Gimp, I'm actually quite good at it. The problem is that anybody you talk to in the GD business has never heard of it. There's a reason why the so-called "Photoshop clone that's free" isn't heard of among the professionals: It's **years** behind in functionality, efficiency, and features. I've used Gimp for years and used Photoshop since its 1.0 days and can honestly say that it's extremely lacking. I would not risk my job/career by daring to suggest we bank our company's image on Gimp.

I'm all for OSS but believe me, if you want to do professional graphics in a timely manor, the grossly over-priced, industry standard, Photoshop is your only solution. The money saved on the OSS solution GIMP is quickly lost in the amount of man hours spent in creating the same image in Photoshop due to its mastery of the subject.

I've had this argument a million times with everyone at my office, including some rather heated ones with our Sys Admin. Never mind that Gimp isn't playing the same game as Photoshop, it's not even in the same ballpark.

My main goal here is to try and convince the Powers That Be that installing Photoshop on a Terminal Server, running sessions at 1280x960 at 24-bit is going to be a killer; the network latency alone will make using Photoshop almost unbearable (think of a VNC session over dialup). I'm trying my best here to get a stand-alone box but we have to keep in mind I'm trying to convince a systems integration and programming company -- a GD has little voice when it comes to hardware/installation decisions :roll:
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Post 3+ Months Ago

tetsuo13 wrote:
The problem is that this will be installed on a Terminal Server, so there will be only one installation. What about in the licensing does it say about multiple Terminal Sessions using Photoshop? Will a single instance binary of Photoshop allow multiple users read permission??

The Binary won't know (or how) to stop it, so it can be done, but legally, no, you wouldn't be able to make a single install and legally share it across a network to run on several machines simultaneously. Licenses are for a single running copy. Even if accessed over a network, if another user wanted to load it, they would have to check that no other users on the network were running it.

tetsuo13 wrote:
This is the key part you left out: QuickBooks, single-user, is /designed/ to be just that -- single user.

Well, I didn't leave it out, I said "single user license of Quickbooks", I thought that would be implication enough that it were designed to be used by a single user at any one time. It's a LICENSE for a single user to be using it. Not that it's a version of software that can ONLY be used in single-user mode.

tetsuo13 wrote:
There is no way you can have two separate QuickBook installations sharing a single DB on the network unless you opt for the multi-user version.

Not quite. You can have two separate QuickBooks installations using the same serial number sharing a single DB, however only a single user can have the application loaded at any one time.

tetsuo13 wrote:
It's not $50 more expensive, it allows you to have 5 people simultaneously accessing the same DB and making changes to it, this cannot be accomplished with single-user version. Period. The $1316 compared to $1359 are two completely different things.

4 different copies of the single user license, with 4 different license, can function in multi-user mode. I've installed 3 single license versions of Quickbooks on 3 separate PCs just 2 weeks ago. They are all still running right now, and all 3 copies can access the database in multi-user mode as they all have different serial numbers.

The same would be true of 4 single user license copies. They all have different serial numbers, and all can access the same database at the same time in multi-user mode.

So, the fact that it's only $50 more expensive to go straight for a 5 user license version, than to buy 4 separate single user license copies, and that's a valid point.

tetsuo13 wrote:
Please read your EULAs a little more carefully, especially if you're in charge of making these decisions for a company. The BSA just loves to get their hands on this sort of behavior.

My clients or I call the software vendors directly on the phone to confirm licensing issues. MOST of the EULA's I've seen will allow you to install on multiple PCs, but only run said software with a single serial number on a single PC at any one time. The Fair Use section of the copyright laws cover this. Nobody would expect you to buy a separate copy of an audio CD for each CD player in your house, car, etc. would they? It's no different with software. Audio & Software, you're still buying a license for use.

Micro$oft may have a per-CPU limitation in the EULA, but I doubt it would stand up in court against Fair Use rights. But please, if you have evidence, feel free to prove me wrong :)

tetsuo13 wrote:
The problem is that anybody you talk to in the GD business has never heard of it.


That's their loss... Most of them have never heard of using a PC for graphics either, but that doesn't mean they can't stand up to the job as well as, or better than, a Mac :)

tetsuo13 wrote:
The money saved on the OSS solution GIMP is quickly lost in the amount of man hours spent in creating the same image in Photoshop due to its mastery of the subject.

Well, that all depends upon the individual using it, and the amount of work required.

For an organization whose sole purpose is creating graphics, they've got 20 designers all used to using Photoshop and they use it constantly from the second they walk into work until right before they put on their coats and leave, then yes, it doesn't make sense to use GIMP.

For a company who's considering playing around with graphics software, has no experience of anything, and it's a non-essential part of the business, and saving money is the key issue, then GIMP can be a very viable option. I know many designers who use GIMP as their primary image processing software.

But, I do agree with your actual point :)

Running Photoshop on a terminal server like that is gonna eat bandwidth - especially if the scratch disk is remotely located too, heh.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

There are *many* applications that will not allow two instances of itself to be run on the OS. For example, launch Photoshop (any version greater than I'd say at least 4). Now, minimize it and try to launch another Photoshop. See how the minimized one restored? Will Photoshop on Terminal Server be aware??

I think I need to clarify exactly what Windows Terminal Server is before this thread turns into a "running Photoshop from a file server over network" deal.

The Terminal Services component of the Windows 2000 Server can deliver the Windows 2000 desktop, as well as the latest Windows-based applications, to virtually any desktop computing device, including those that cannot run Windows. This lets more people in an organization take advantage of the resources provided by a distributed computing environment.

When a user runs an application on Terminal Server, all of the application execution takes place on the server and only the keyboard, mouse and display information are transmitted over the network. Each user sees only their individual session, which is managed transparently by the server operating system and is independent of any other client session.

Have you ever used VNC? It's pretty much like that.

So, one Terminal Server in the office will have multiple people connected to it all with their own display, desktop, settings, and so forth. If user A launches Photoshop, Photoshop thinks someone is sitting in front of the computer. If user B launches Photoshop, it still thinks someone is sitting in front of the computer. It has absoluetely no awareness that it's being used in a Terminal Session environment -- or does it? These are the sort of questions that I'm most interested in.

I'm really not trying to pick nits -- really -- I'm just trying to get a headsup about Photoshop on a 2000 Terminal Server environment because I've never heard of anyone doing it.
  • Axe
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Post 3+ Months Ago

tetsuo13 wrote:
There are *many* applications that will not allow two instances of itself to be run on the OS. For example, launch Photoshop (any version greater than I'd say at least 4). Now, minimize it and try to launch another Photoshop. See how the minimized one restored? Will Photoshop on Terminal Server be aware??


That's different. When you double click one of those executables, it looks in the local system's processes to see if it's already running. If it is, don't load a second copy.

If you have 2 PCs, and they are both accessing the same copy of a piece of software with such checks, you can still load a single copy the software into memory (by double clicking on the icon) on both systems from a single shared installation.

Even with QuickBooks, it has to load it in order to be able to look across the network to see if it's already in use. The Executable itself doesn't know that it's already in use before you've clicked it and told it to run.

If the terminal services are indeed something like VNC, and they're all actually running on a single PC and only the display output is transferred, then you'd only be able to run a single copy if such software checks are in place.

If it's running on the local processor, you would be able to run a single copy on each machine (although not legally).

BUT, VNC in windows runs as the user who's logged in and loaded the application right?

With Linux, each individual user can run their own copy of VNC from their own user account. Which means under Linux, if you have software that looks to see if it's already loaded, and doesn't load a second copy if it is, is only capable of looking to see if the current user is running it. Not every user on the system.

So, Let's just say Application X is a program that, when loading, looks to see if it's already loaded.

User 1 loads Application X, it isn't already running, so it loads up fully. User 1 attempts to load Application X whilst there's already a copy loading. The second instance of Applciation X sees this and quits.

Now, User 1 still has Application X running, but now User 2 comes along, connects via BNC, and decides he wants to run ApplicationX. Even though User 1 is still running it, it will allow User 2 to run his own copy of it.

As to whether or not Terminal Server works the same way as VNC does for Linux in this example or not, I've absolutely no idea.
  • Smilingwolf
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Though most of this thread is now beyond me, I actually read the EULA for Adobe PS 7.0. It states that it can be installed on only 1 computer. You can also install on 1 portable computer providing the portable and desktop are not running at the same time. It can be installed on a server, provided only one computer per license is running the software.


[Going back to my little dark corner now.]
  • tetsuo13
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Post 3+ Months Ago

That part we will adhere to without a problem, it will be installed on a 2000 Terminal Server. The iffy part is that multiple people will be using it via terminal sessions. Most EULAs don't say anything about that part (MS Office actually has a clause prohibiting the installation of itself on a Terminal Server unless you purchase a multi-user version of Office). Is there such thing as a 5-user license of Photoshop?

Axe, I could debate with you all day (it's actually enlightening), but we're both wrong on something: Knowing how Photoshop deals with a Terminal Server environment. We can both guess how it might react, but someone who's installed it in a Terminal Server environment would know the answer ^^;

(Not to be pushed off topic but I can't resist. A Terminal Session is only like VNC in that the user can sit anywhere and get a session on the remote computer -- that's all. VNC, on Windows, all connected users share the desktop. VNC in a Linux box would allow you to get a unique desktop under the window manager. Terminal Server is a lot more like the VNC for Linux, except it does a better job of it.)

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