Arizona and the Immigration Law

  • dyfrin
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Well, fully passed, it now will go into effect. It of course is being challenged, but it is amusing to me the lengths people go to make arguments against it.

Quote:
"If every state had its own laws, we wouldn't be one country; we'd be 50 different countries," said Thomas Saenz, president and general counsel of the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund.

He doesn't understand that they do have different laws, drinking age, age of consent, speed limits, etc. The states are supposed to make laws, and do more than the federal government.

I agree that this will be hard to enforce and will it even make a difference in the overall numbers?

one of many sources: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/ ... 6027.shtml

I picked the cbs story, but there is another site that states how those who cry racial profiling.
Don't want racial profiling? Then lets remove it from the universities that give certain races preeminence over whites to meet their quota for aid, remove the racial set-asides in government contracting, etc.
There are so many "racial profiling" laws in effect that put down white people. If two students, one white, one other, have same test scores, going into the same program, and are equal in class rank, who will be accepted?

There is a facebook group against this, it's how I got onto this story, stating they need to remove the ability to check if you are illegal.

Oh how I replied, I wish the government couldn't ask me if I payed my taxes, how a store shouldn't be able to stop me and check if I paid for that xbox 360 as I leave the store.


In my opinion, we have the technology to have satellites watching the boarder and have a few small patrol forces pick them up. The government will not enforce it.

To have something be illegal, and then in no real way enforce it is a waste.
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  • kc0tma
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I don't like the law at all. Because even if your grand parents came across the border legally and became naturalized citizens, then your parents were born in New York City, and you were born in Chicago, you can still be stopped by law enforcement in Arizona and asked to prove your citizenship just because you have darker skin.

I can't help but play their own game on this one. Recently conservative groups have been comparing Obama to Hitler and even putting little mustaches on his picture and stuff. And now conservatives want people who are not of the purest European decent to carry paperwork proving their citizenship.....just the same way the Nazi's did with the Jews. I hate to stoop down to the level of comparing a group to Nazi's but this is just so flipping obvious and stupid.
  • dyfrin
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kc0tma wrote:
I don't like the law at all. Because even if your grand parents came across the border legally and became naturalized citizens, then your parents were born in New York City, and you were born in Chicago, you can still be stopped by law enforcement in Arizona and asked to prove your citizenship just because you have darker skin.


This hits it on the head, the illegal search of the amendment, and the overall harassment.

But the wording isn't just "if you are darker skinned" it is if they have reasonable suspicion.

Reasonable suspicion allows an officer to stop and question you. At that time they verify who you are by running plates, and drivers license.
They can already do this to American citizens in every state I have seen.

Since the 1940s, federal law has required non-citizens in this country to carry, on their person, the documentation proving they are here legally -- green card, work visa, etc. Everyone driving a car is required to have their license. I don't understand how people wouldn't have identification.

For instance drunk driving:
The police to pull over a drunk driver needs to go through certain steps.
First if the car is leaving a bar, that does not give them reasonable suspicion.
Reasonable suspicion only occurs if the driving is erratic.

The person is pulled over and asked for license/registration and plates ran.
Right there they check for criminal history, warrants, and status of the car.

The officer then asks for you to take a sobriety test. If you refuse, they use other methods, like their flashlight in your eyes to see if they jitter when they follow the light, and ask you questions to see if your speech is slurred.

Only if the officer can show that these tests produced results that show intoxication can they state they have probable cause to arrest.


The actual law: Sec. 2. Title 11, chapter 7, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended by
12 adding article 8, to read

Quote:
B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c)


Lawful contact != if you are mexican I am going to stop you.

I am not for this law as I believe it will be ineffectual.
  • joebert
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Mexicans need jobs and America has jobs, Americans need drugs and Mexico has drugs. I think we should do a swap with Mexico. We should send over an American drug addict for every Mexican we catch over here. That would put the drug addicts closer to the drugs and the Mexicans closer to the jobs. Everybody wins.
  • jflynn
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kc0tma wrote:
I hate to stoop down to the level of comparing a group to Nazi's but this is just so flipping obvious and stupid.


then don't. Nazi Germany also created the Autoban, what we call a Freeway or Interstate. Next time your in a dicussion use this.

Anyways, I'm not sure that they are going about it the correct way but something had to be done. One of the fundamental jobs of the Federal Gov. is to secure our borders. They obviously are doing a terrible job at doing it so it is up to the states to take care of it.
  • camperjohn
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The only people that are upset are the people that are here illegally. It's that simple, and those same people can't admit it - even to themselves.

You don't see people in Utah protesting laws protecting ocean over-fishing. It's because there aren't many oceans next to Utah.
  • joebert
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I wonder if the jerkoffs who waste everyones time with stuff like the kids in the following video have anything to do with this whole ordeal.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msFEj-UBU9Q
  • dyfrin
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I fought the law and the law won should be the background song to that video.

This is the problem with many of these laws. People get worked up about causes and ideas instead of the actual results.

This guy would have no police search any vehicle because of the 4th amendment. Watch the movie Trade for a real look at immigration failure.
  • dyfrin
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http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64B4W820100512

interesting the amount of approval it has.

Of course these polls are probably given to people registered in a phone book..
  • KCVannders
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Such a controversial law yet I remember when it was common practice back in the 1970's to ask about immigration status everywhere.
  • rcs74
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Post 3+ Months Ago

joebert wrote:
Mexicans need jobs and America has jobs, Americans need drugs and Mexico has drugs. I think we should do a swap with Mexico. We should send over an American drug addict for every Mexican we catch over here. That would put the drug addicts closer to the drugs and the Mexicans closer to the jobs. Everybody wins.


LOL!

Really though, as a 1st generation non-Mexican Hispanic who's parents immigrated legally to the U.S.- I don't understand why things are let go to get so out of hand. Do you think if we as a nation had seriously come down on people hiring and profiting from hiring illegals instead of this that it would've made a difference?
I am sympathetic to others wanting to live in "the land of opportunity" and to get a chance at that dream but not illegally or at the expense of those who are fighting for that right daily already. That goes for anyone entering the country illegally. Right now the focus is on the Mexican border because of this law but we have people here from all over the world illegally causing mischief and mayhem.
Just thinking out loud I guess.

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