Communism, Good or Bad Idea?

  • Dragon
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Post 3+ Months Ago

roarmeow wrote:
deidre,
i know this is a little overdue, but..
go bosox...
as a native new yorker, i just gotta hand it to you...
i was happy as all get out to see y'all kick the yankees' butt...


LOL, very communist! :lol:
  • tojan
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Assuming that everyone cooperates...
you know what they say about "assuming".
Im from Poland, and I've got full right to say somthing about this sick system.

Last year I've heard so many jokes about Poland being in the past communistic state, which wasn't very nice.
Do you think that Poland chose to be communistic?
Do you think Poland was very cooperative about this system?
America was very brave to fight communism but it was in Yalta conference, where America gave up several central european countries (poland, czech republic, Hungary, etc) to Stalin.

While talking to some people (in the US) I've found that many people perceive history as stream of good and bad events (BTW Bush loves black&white reality). For some people there is nothing in between. History is much more complicated than most people think and if you want to understand right you have to go into details.

Communism has ruined Poland economically and has done some damage to society.
I think that communism might work in some laid back countries (like so. america), but not in European countries.

If you want to learn something about communism just study history.
Communism is great in ideas, but in it's idealism it forgets about humans weaknesses and bad sides.
  • Shadow Knight
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I couldnt agree more Trojan, but we as humans make fun of ourself, dont take personal those jokes. Im from cuba, a country that have been ditated by a comunist dictator for over 40 years, and I have heard bad jokes about it too, even to the point that some pleople have treat me like crap just because I an cuban, even though Im totally against Comunisn.. and I know capitalism is off the topic, but Capitalism isnt perfect either, Capitalism has as many mistakes as communisn does. All hatred that there is between human kind its mostly because of this political issues, both parties proclaim peace and such and as soon as you turn your back they stab you.


hope you all understand my writing.
  • Dragon
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Post 3+ Months Ago

mann, I think we just all swish to anarchy... lol J/K guys....
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Post 3+ Months Ago

or better yet Yoidelism

considering that my name is Yoidel and I created this political party..... come my children

lol j/k
  • Dragon
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Post 3+ Months Ago

nah, seriously now, in the other side, I'm a cuban too, and I hated communism while living in Cuba. I mean I seriously had the imagery that the United States was the perfect form of goverment, ofcourse living out all the lack of equanimity mentioned in the Cuban news.

I had the blockage in my head, everything was unperfect, why are there people making tons of money there and look at me here having to walk to school while kids there simply take school busses. Everything was unperfect because everything I looked at was based in our controlling Money.

But now, that I'm currently living in a capitalist country, I look back to the old communism, the one that inculcated me into the human being I am, and appreciate it a lot more.

However there is no current perfect goverment on earth, man is just not mentally ready for one. We are too imperfect for one.
  • daniel.g.wood
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Post 3+ Months Ago

tojan wrote:
Assuming that everyone cooperates...
America was very brave to fight communism.


Hey, us brits fought it too, all the way. that said, on paper, communism looks far better as a form of fair and equal govt. However, as most of us realise, there is no man incorrupted, which is what you'd need for the ideal communist society: a few million non-corrupt people, or a massive tribe of clones all corrupt in exactly the same way.

until then, ill stick wiv this capitalist stuff. :roll:
  • meman
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Thats why i disagree with capitalism.
We arnt a part of it, we are a tool used by it.

If everybody was a part of capitalism it would become comunism.
Capitalism feeds off the fact that not everybody has an equal chance.
There a few that take a lot from the many.
  • roarmeow
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Post 3+ Months Ago

word, meman...
i think, though, this is something much bigger than capitalism...
it even predates feudalism, though feudalism was the first place where families really sought to preserve their fortunes in very codified ways.

and that inequality, or rather inequity, spans capitalism, real-world communism, all them things...

i mean, heck, daniel.g.wood, it's not like capitalism mitigates corruptness... it encourages it, primarily through the diffusion of responsibility... just take a look around the world... communism as embodied by the u.s.s.r., china, etc. does the same thing through the consolidation of power.

corporate capitalism, in which corporation have limited liability and largely shield the human decision makers behind them allows for eggregious abuses of life.

take a deep look into luxury goods like diamonds - debeers, shane... ever hear the term 'conflict diamonds'... well... truth is, most diamonds are conflict diamonds in one way or another - people and land die for 'luxury'... and how much of that money goes back into communities in brazil, angola, sierra lione???

hows about 'necessities' like petroleum? need i say more? corporate interests in first world countries have made a few families and select communities in the middle east extremely rich and driven others to desolation while... and have destroyed whole african communities... totally screwed up the land and the water even in the u.s.

i mean, dang, i met a guy who had to watch his brother hanged and shot by a security force hired by shell oil for peacefully protesting the way shell was irresponsibly changing the landscape and destroying the life of the ogoni people...

and who's responsible? no one... not according to our great god money.

dang... 'america was brave to fight communism'... oh, and the brits, too?
well, communism was brave to fight capitalism...
all these powerful warlords and world 'leaders' show great courage...
even george w. bush, but...

"Possessed of courage but devoid of morality, a gentleman will make trouble while a small man will be a brigand."
-Confucius
  • ynyfrik
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I have to say communisim is not fair. Ozzu moderaters are acting like asses and KGB Crossbread and i feel like this communisum!
  • Jedi
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Post 3+ Months Ago

i Do Like the Idea of communism in its purest form. But we have Yet to see an Truely communist Country more of the other attempts have failed due to corruption but i think the idea that everyone is the same is great.
  • deirdre
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Communism gives a very small number all the power over the vast number ... who are then told by the small number what is good for them. Ugh
  • roarmeow
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Post 3+ Months Ago

diedre,

you are so right. all of the "communisms" we've seen on a large scale in this world have been dictatorial - lenin's "dictatorship of the proletariat" was ridiculous and the proletariat suffered tremendously - further, it made way for stalinism...
maoism led to the death of many people who even helped bring mao to power - not to mention enormous amounts of chinese cutlure being destroyed, from book burnings to defacement of art. and then there was the invasion of and cultural genocide in tibet.
cuba has many great points, but it is telling that cubans in cuba are not eager to voice their critiques of the state in public.

but, to be fair, those are dictatorships, not communism.
most communisms we've seen in this world are dictatorships, but according to marxist principle, communism needs to be a democracy for it to work.

further, to propose that the united states in not in the same boat is kind of ridiculous.

sure, we've got elected officials who we vote for, but has anyone here ever heard the term "the lesser of two evils"?

the options we're given for representatives, especially for higher offices (senate, presidency, etc.) are determined by party interests and big business. just take a look at who the major contributors are to both the democratic and republican parties.
check this out: http://www.bop2004.org/bop2004/report.aspx?aid=132

if that's not a rule of the many by the few, what is?

i would love for someone to bring up an example of a western government that is not built on this top-down mold...

until then...

much love,
puck
  • j0seph
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Post 3+ Months Ago

The main flaw in communism is *our instict of "Self Preservation", we are greedy, we think out ideals are better than our neighboors, we as humans are wired that way at birth, and until we can figure out a way around this obstacle, communism will never work...
  • roarmeow
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Post 3+ Months Ago

thanks for summing up a really widely-thought idea, real concise and to the point...

i gotta disagree though.

we have very little sense about what 'human nature' means and arguments such as this have, through time, been used to justify all sorts of ridiculous social decisions. Slavery was justified through a biological argument. Most biologists and animal researchers will firmly disagree with this argument even though it has been pushed by social theoriest, partisans and "social Darwinists" for a good long time.

We, as humans, are wired at birth to do very little - just like dogs and cats. If we were not reared, we would probably figure out how to eat and breathe and then seek out social situations for group survival and we'd probably die. Greed is a social conditioned attribute that, perhaps, is developed by warping one's sense of self-preservation.

From a biological standpoint, if a species evolved with greed 'hard-wired' into it, especially such a socially-dependant species as humans, said species would go extinct rather quickly.

Further, I find it to be a highly immoral train of thought that lumps together "Self Preservation" with "greed"... those two operators are very different and, often times, contradictory. You don't have to look far to find examples of individuals and nations whose greed overpowered their sense of self-preservation. To name one: Saddam Hussein.

Further, there are people who have found ways to avoid, or at least mitigate, the preponderance of greed. Since the 1300s up until its invasion by the Maoist Chinese army, the Tibetan nation was a prime example of a people who had figure out how to mitigate the effects of greed - and this is a nation that, prior to the 1300s, was an expansive, greedy, warring nation - one of the most powerful in Asia.

Finally, looking to examples and arguing out fine points of national governance are all fine and good, but if you really think that there is a problem with how humans treat one another, I suggest to anyone to just start with yourself.

Stop making excused that biology has determined that we treat one another poorly and act with generosity and benevolence. If the government is contrary to this, then don't do what they say to do, be true to the vision you have.

As long as we, as indiviudals, fail to take responsibility for how we live our lives, we will forever be ruled by poor leaders.

Because truly, the revolution starts when you change your mind.
  • Sovi3t
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Post 3+ Months Ago

@ynyfrik - Greetings fellow soviet union buddy!

My great-grandfather was shot at a labor camp in the USSR because he hid some of the gold and possesions so that he didn't have to turn it in to the gov't. My great-grandmother had already died from cancer earlier. The whole family was declared as an "enemy of the state". To avoid being placed in an orphanage, their oldest brother took them and fled the country. I guess they ended up moving back because I was born in Moscow (as a Soviet, hence the username Sovi3t).

Communism would work really well in theory, but the way people are (greedy) it will never work out. There's really no way of fixing this, since all humans are born with at least a little amount of greed.

A recent communist quote from my mom: "Shopping was so much easier back then, there was only one brand to choose from!"
  • Todd Charske
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I'd say there's a reason why the communists state all fall!?!?

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Post 3+ Months Ago

I believe that Science of Spock was right. I have read the Communist Manufesto by Karl Marx and in theory, communism would work, but humans are flawed, so it would never work because of human nature.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Nego wrote:
No form of government is perfect because humans were never meant to be governed. I think is SAD when you bring up "human imperfection" to defend ANY kind of government.


That is so, so wrong. Every species is meant to be governed and live by some sort of law in order to keep order. If you believe in the bible, then you know, things are to be done here as they are in the, "Kingdom of Heaven." But, if you don't believe in the bible, then look around at every other species on the planet and watch their forms of government, and learn...The animal kingdom is probrably the only fair and successful forms of government(s) on earth.
  • mr_darek
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Post 3+ Months Ago

OriginNO_II wrote:
That is so, so wrong. Every species is meant to be governed and live by some sort of law in order to keep order. If you believe in the bible, then you know, things are to be done here as they are in the, "Kingdom of Heaven." But, if you don't believe in the bible, then look around at every other species on the planet and watch their forms of government, and learn...The animal kingdom is probrably the only fair and successful forms of government(s) on earth.


You must be referring to survival of the fittest and natural selection.

Also, every species is meant to be governed? Says who, exactly? Human beings? Or, presumably the implications you speak of inferred in the bible - but thats trivial because if you were born in Iran you would most likely deem the koran as the inference toward this meaning or for that matter, if you were born in India, the baghavad gita....

Laws essentially only avoid problems - they do not solve them, if they did, then surely we wouldn't have laws being broken.

In regards to the Soviet Union - that was not what communism is suppose to be like, that was a dictatorship borrowing certain aspects of communism which is not communism at all.
  • grinch2171
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Thank you so much for reviving a 2 year old thread Todd Charske
  • Bogey
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I'm glad I'm in America :) :) :)
  • Mas Sehguh
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Post 3+ Months Ago

OriginNO_II wrote:
The animal kingdom is probrably the only fair and successful forms of government(s) on earth.


I take it you're an anarchist then.

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