Communism, Good or Bad Idea?

  • Dragon
  • Proficient
  • Proficient
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 409
  • Loc: USA

Post 3+ Months Ago

I would love to hear what you guys think about a theoretical economic system known as communism.
  • Anonymous
  • Bot
  • No Avatar
  • Posts: ?
  • Loc: Ozzuland
  • Status: Online

Post 3+ Months Ago

  • ynyfrik
  • Graduate
  • Graduate
  • ynyfrik
  • Posts: 178
  • Loc: Chicago

Post 3+ Months Ago

Many Of My family died or had to stay in sibir during the soviet union.
i don't think that communism is really "bad" i just think that some of it is crule and stupid.Almost no one was poor and could afford bread but there was the KGB and the darn laws.i don't think my parents wouldn't have fled CCCP if they weren't after us that my dad Studied English.
  • ScienceOfSpock
  • Mastermind
  • Mastermind
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 1893
  • Loc: Las Vegas

Post 3+ Months Ago

Theoretically, communism is ideal, as it ensures that all citizens have equal pay, equal housing etc. In other words, it eliminates homelessness, poverty etc. IMHO, in practice though, it encourages mediocrity.

By contrast, in a capatalist society, gifted individuals are compensated, based on their percieved contributions. This encourages the gifted to continue to innovate.

Logically, I think a communist based system is better, because it leaves nobody behind (in theory), but it also doesn't encourage any individual to stand out or innovate. It encourages individuals to just "do their job". This leads to a stagnant society.
Capatalism, on the other hand, allows individuals to excel, but the less educated/less intelligent/less fortunate are left behind.

Personally, I would love to see a communist system that worked, but in the end, I believe that the difference between communism and capatalism has more to do with Darwin than anything else. Capitalism is the ultimate example of Darwinism, and Communism is the ultimate attempt of humans to try to seperate ourselves from the animals and break away from Darwinism. The problem is that, as humans, we are still subject to the "Survival of the Fittest" rule. It's in our genes.

Capatalism, unfortunately, fits us as a society. There might come a time when Communism works, but in my opinion, that time is a long way off.
  • ScienceOfSpock
  • Mastermind
  • Mastermind
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 1893
  • Loc: Las Vegas

Post 3+ Months Ago

As a clarification:
We as humans work on a rewards based system. If I do something, I do it because I think the reward will be good. If I develop a warp drive, I feel confident that my employers will reward me greatly and that society as a whole will regard me with much prestiege. The same is true of a Lion, hunting food for his pride. He knows, if he succeeds, the rewards will be great. He gets to eat, show his prowess to the females, possible challenge the patriarch, etc.

The difference is that humans think on an individual level. "What can I do that will improve my position?". The Lion is thinking of the Pride. "What can I do that will ensure that my Pride will survive?"
  • meman
  • Web Master
  • Web Master
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 3432
  • Loc: London Town , Apples and pears and all that crap

Post 3+ Months Ago

yeah i agree, in theory communism works.
Its only flaw is because a lot of people wouldnt go along with it, there will always be people who want more than thier neighbour, or feel they are worth more.

The only reason there are people living in poverty and other living in a famine is because of the few who believe they deserve more.

It wont change untill people stop living as consumers, a persons life these days is judged on how much they can consume, or how much they are capable of consuming. Communism would need people to see beyond material wealth.
  • ATNO/TW
  • Super Moderator
  • Super Moderator
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 23456
  • Loc: Woodbridge VA

Post 3+ Months Ago

Thought this was settled in WWII or was that WWI?, (or was that the Matrix ?) Didn't the "Architect" have to "redesign" the Matrix because of this inherent human flaw?
  • ScienceOfSpock
  • Mastermind
  • Mastermind
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 1893
  • Loc: Las Vegas

Post 3+ Months Ago

meman wrote:
Communism would need people to see beyond material wealth.


The problem is that we are not built that way. As animals, we are trying to always ensure that our offspring survive (regardless of whether we have offspring or not), and in our society, that translates to capitalistic wealth. The more money I have, the better chance my offspring have of surviving.
It's all about currency.
When humans were hunter-gatherers, the currency was how much potential food you could bring to the tribe. If you were stronger, and stood a better chance of bringing down a caribou, you had more worth to the tribe. The same is true today.

I think my second post was in error. I'm drinking, and thinking on a lot of levels, lol.

I think the animal kingdom, by it's very nature is capitalist. Female animals ALWAYS look for signs in a mate that that mate will bring the most benefit to the offspring. That is capitalism.
Communism is the sacrifice of self for the benefit of the community/species. This way of thinking, although beneficial to society as a whole, is difficult for us, since we come pre-built with a Darwinian brain.
The priorities in a Darwinian brain are as follows: Preservation of Self. Preservation of Offspring. Preservation of Species. In that order.
Because we can't break away from the first 2 on a global level, Communism can't work, because it depends on everyone doing just that.
  • meman
  • Web Master
  • Web Master
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 3432
  • Loc: London Town , Apples and pears and all that crap

Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
Thought this was settled in WWII or was that WWI?, (or was that the Matrix ?) Didn't the "Architect" have to "redesign" the Matrix because of this inherent human flaw?

Maybe WWIII will sort it out lol.
I think thats the main thing that drives people these days, the idea that they could have so much more than the next guy. They dont look at what they have and judge it, they compare what they have to what the next guy has and compare.

Quote:
The problem is that we are not built that way. As animals, we are trying to always ensure that our offspring survive (regardless of whether we have offspring or not), and in our society, that translates to capitalistic wealth.

Yeah but we dont need to do that anymore, animals need certain things or they die, but we have switched it and instead of needing food we need nike shoes or an expencive car, how does having expecive products help our offspring?

There is already enough food on the planet to feed everybody 7 times over, America alone throw away more food than it would take to feed the whole third world.

Animals have the equivelent of capitolism because they need to, we do it because we are greedy. theres a big difference.
  • roarmeow
  • Professor
  • Professor
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 861
  • Loc: BKNY

Post 3+ Months Ago

both communism and capitalism are great... in theory...
one flaw is the same in each of 'em... those in power will do all that they can to stay in power...
the "communism" in the soviet union was never really communism, much as stalin divided the land up into collective units blah blah... you wanna talk about communism, refer to the paris commune or some other moment in history like that... however, the soviet union was, in more accurate terms, state capitalism - it was still run on a capital-based system and the people at the top had more capital than the rest.

and power begets power. y'all know that the 'founding fathers' of the u.s. were, for the most part, colonial administrators under the british government? hmmm... marx and engels were upper-crust germans with the capacity to self-publish a ridiculous amount of text and lenin was an intellectual. mao was a peasant, but he had risen up through the imperial exams in china to gain access to a great deal of upward mobility. fidel castro was an attorney before he became a revolutionary leader. make no mistake, world leaders are world leaders because they aspire to power - and often at any price... there are few exceptions and most of the exceptions have been executed (ghandi, mlk jr., che guevara, trotsky, malcom x, emiliano zapata...)

and if you're gonna argue that communism encourages mediocrity, you can look at literacy rates in cuba - or just look at how many doctors come out of there and do mad amounts of humanitarian work in other south and central-american countries - not the product of mediocrity.
what about the dance, visual art and music that came out of communist russia... olympic atheletes from china... dang, folks, y'all are missing some major points in history.
modern art and design would be nowhere without the constructivism under soviet state capitalism and the bauhaus movement inspired on by the socialist movement in germany.

imho, the most significant problem with 'communism' is that it is predicated on a far-too-intellectual ideal. many proponents and theoreticians of communism speak of 'the masses,' in a sense removing themselves from the human condition in order to address it, and barely even mention any recognition of the rest of life or of a spiritual presence beyond the limits of gross perception.

capitalism... would work really well if it were and even playing field - saying it's the 'ultimate example of darwinism' may be right, but not as you might think, Science of Spock. the capitalism that we are currently experiencing - one in which accountability is thrown out the window. the aggressive actions of the world's largest state power (the u.s.) in order to protect its capital interest is leading to such things as the dissolution of the ozone layer and a ridiculous concentration of resources on a small group of people puts our entire species at risk of quicker extinction... look at the spread of preventable disease... look at the progressive erosion of biodiversity... and don't forget the senseless wars and violence enacted by human upon human... in the past 50 years, this world has been constantly at war - this is unprecedented in human history. looks to me like capitalism and darwinism'll team up to extinguish the human flame...

don't get me wrong... communism ain't any better... the veritable worship of industry in place of any other religion in communist rhetoric quickly leads to a disrespect for the land... communism is a religion of the people and of the machine and disregards all other life. mao said in his little red book something along the lines that he is not scared of a u.s. nuclear bomb because the chinese had the capacity to repopulate so quickly that they would be unstoppable. this philosophy disregards the spiritual life of the individual as well as of all other life that is harmed in warfare.

sorry about the whole rant thing, but this stuff is pretty important... to me, at least... it's not just a matter of theory and argumentation... it's a matter of life and death...

kingdoms rise and fall and the only true measure of progress is the evolution of consciousness... if, on an individual level, we can work to spread peace and care for one another, we are working toward the end of all of these systems of oppression and repression... we need to reach out, across borders, and embrace those we formerly didn't understand... and drop these damnable ideologies...

the only state i'll ever give my life for is a state of mind...

and that state of mind is blessed and full of love. i may not be there yet, and i may never get there, but if i don't i will die trying.

in love and struggle,
puck
  • Rabid Dog
  • Web Master
  • Web Master
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 3245
  • Loc: South Africa

Post 3+ Months Ago

Communism would be great, the idea of all being equal is fantastic. For some arb reason people need other people to lead them. This allows people to have scape goats.

The moral of the story is people can't see each other as equals and therefore communism won't work.
  • meman
  • Web Master
  • Web Master
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 3432
  • Loc: London Town , Apples and pears and all that crap

Post 3+ Months Ago

You make some very true and valid points but the examples you use of communism failing aren't true examples of communism. They are examples of people introducing a comunist state in order to further thier own capiltalist ideas.
They introduce comunism for the people so they them sellves can live as the ultimate capitolist.

True communism wouldnt have leaders living in mansions while the people have things equaly shared, for it to work everybody has to be in on it.

True communism is flawless.

The fundemental idea behind communism is absolute equality, and the fundemental idea behind capitolism is the exact opposite.
Capitolsism isnt so much about how much money you can make, its more about how much money you can take from others and how much you have compared to them.
If you have $1 million and i have $1 you are rich.
if you have $1 million and i have $2 million you are not rich. So you would need to take the money from me rather than get more of your own, i dont know if that make sence, but its why capitolism is so bad for society. Its not about what you have, its about what you have compared to what i have, Because thats how we judge wealth.
  • ScienceOfSpock
  • Mastermind
  • Mastermind
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 1893
  • Loc: Las Vegas

Post 3+ Months Ago

roarmeow wrote:
and if you're gonna argue that communism encourages mediocrity, you can look at literacy rates in cuba - or just look at how many doctors come out of there and do mad amounts of humanitarian work in other south and central-american countries - not the product of mediocrity.

Not the work of mediocrity to be sure, but how many Einsteins, or Darwins, or Neitsche's come from Cuba? The people that come from Cuba, that the rest of the world remembers, are the rebels, not the communists.
  • ScienceOfSpock
  • Mastermind
  • Mastermind
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 1893
  • Loc: Las Vegas

Post 3+ Months Ago

roarmeow wrote:
both communism and capitalism are great... in theory...
one flaw is the same in each of 'em... those in power will do all that they can to stay in power...imho, the most significant problem with 'communism' is that it is predicated on a far-too-intellectual ideal. many proponents and theoreticians of communism speak of 'the masses,' in a sense removing themselves from the human condition in order to address it, and barely even mention any recognition of the rest of life or of a spiritual presence beyond the limits of gross perception.

And that is where communism fails. There are a few at the top, who preach communism to the masses, but they don't practice it themselves. They are capitalists.


roarmeow wrote:
don't get me wrong... communism ain't any better... the veritable worship of industry in place of any other religion in communist rhetoric quickly leads to a disrespect for the land... communism is a religion of the people and of the machine and disregards all other life. mao said in his little red book something along the lines that he is not scared of a u.s. nuclear bomb because the chinese had the capacity to repopulate so quickly that they would be unstoppable. this philosophy disregards the spiritual life of the individual as well as of all other life that is harmed in warfare.


gonna have to comment on this later. Too much drink makes ScienceOfSpock a dull boy :)
  • Dragon
  • Proficient
  • Proficient
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 409
  • Loc: USA

Post 3+ Months Ago

ScienceOfSpock wrote:
roarmeow wrote:
and if you're gonna argue that communism encourages mediocrity, you can look at literacy rates in cuba - or just look at how many doctors come out of there and do mad amounts of humanitarian work in other south and central-american countries - not the product of mediocrity.

Not the work of mediocrity to be sure, but how many Einsteins, or Darwins, or Neitsche's come from Cuba? The people that come from Cuba, that the rest of the world remembers, are the rebels, not the communists.


Let me tell you of my experience with education as a Cuban myself. How could I tell you this, after looking into the educative system depicted in the united stated I wanted to cry, I was not only treated as a computer but the content I was dealing with in high school, I had already seen in Cuba years ago. By the time you graduate from a Cuban high school, you will be looking into context that college students will start to look at.

Yes Einstein did not come from Cuba, but look at it; with only 11 million people we are about the size of a United States state and look how many doctors there are out there contributing to the 3rd world. My father being a doctor himself is sometimes amazed by the mistakes he sees many American doctors commit.
And I talk about high school, let me not even expand on life in a University, were staying in the university (which by the way is Gratuitous) is like surviving a war. Not because you will supplely get kicked out, but because not many can keep up with the content.

Thus while Cuba doesn’t lacks of a great quality of education, where going to a doctor to get rid of a tumor FREE, it is encountered by a government depicting communism in the wrong decade and in the wrong way. Our humanity is not ready for a communist life, and while thousands make different interpretations and uses of the meaning behind communism, others have like me leaved the country looking for a better life.
  • Nego
  • Expert
  • Expert
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 697
  • Loc: Chicago

Post 3+ Months Ago

No form of government is perfect because humans were never meant to be governed. I think is SAD when you bring up "human imperfection" to defend ANY kind of government.
  • Mas Sehguh
  • Mastermind
  • Mastermind
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 1853

Post 3+ Months Ago

People keep saying how in theory, communism is great. But they're talking about a bad theory. Just like I could say that in theory, gravity increases as you get further away from the Earth. Which is also a bad theory.

Theoretically, communism is flawed, if you ask me. It's not just a matter of practicality.

Communism is like building a house in Seattle with no roof. Ideally, it will never rain on a house that has no roof. Theoretically, it would be nice to live in such a house, sleeping under the stars. People who consider the house to be a good idea are morons, though.
  • meman
  • Web Master
  • Web Master
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 3432
  • Loc: London Town , Apples and pears and all that crap

Post 3+ Months Ago

Well the people who say in theory communism works have given reasons why they believe it would work... so why do you think the theory of communism dosnt work?

And what about people who want to live in a house with no roof? how can you say they are wrong to live in such a house just because YOU think its a bad idea?
thats not communism , its not capitalism, if you say do as i say or you are a moron that make you a fascist.

There are smal groups all over the planet that have addopted communism ( in comunes ) and not one of them comunes have failed. Everybody is fed, watered and they are all happy. so not only does it work in theory it even works in practice.
  • roarmeow
  • Professor
  • Professor
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 861
  • Loc: BKNY

Post 3+ Months Ago

Rabid Dog wrote:
Communism would be great, the idea of all being equal is fantastic. For some arb reason people need other people to lead them. This allows people to have scape goats.

The moral of the story is people can't see each other as equals and therefore communism won't work.


Rabid Dog, you gotta go check out Escape from Freedom by Erich Fromm... really explores that whole phenomenon with people...

Also, communism is not built entirely on equality... communism is built on a similar premise as the sermon on the mount... you know - from each according to their capability to each according to their needs... all that... communism is more about seeing a self-interest in group survival and prosperity and, actually , communism (also known as scientific socialism) is a system that is very flexible...
as lenin laid it out, there were very definite stages for gradating leadership... from a 'dictatorship of the proletariat' to a truly democratic system (one not run by big money like our 'democracy' in the u.s.)...

i just wrote this, though, for the book mention...
anyone interested in this stuff for real for real should check it out... explains why u.s. citizens are acting so damn dumb, too...

peace,
puck
  • roarmeow
  • Professor
  • Professor
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 861
  • Loc: BKNY

Post 3+ Months Ago

Sam Hughes wrote:
People keep saying how in theory, communism is great. But they're talking about a bad theory. Just like I could say that in theory, gravity increases as you get further away from the Earth. Which is also a bad theory.

Theoretically, communism is flawed, if you ask me. It's not just a matter of practicality.

Communism is like building a house in Seattle with no roof. Ideally, it will never rain on a house that has no roof. Theoretically, it would be nice to live in such a house, sleeping under the stars. People who consider the house to be a good idea are morons, though.


real quick... social theory is nothing like scientific theory... that's part of why it's so flawed... people who lay it out treat it as such, but it's not...

folks talk about 'human nature' and all this mess...

really, the only human nature is that which fits into scientific theory... birth breath death...

that's about it... otherwise, it's a crap shoot...

as far as moral practices, communism's flawed, socialism's flawed, capitalism's flawed, feudalism's flawed, imperialism's flawed, totalitarianism's flawed, fascism's flawed (though they've got great clothes), monarchism's flawed, and on and on...

i'm'a stick the one i know works...

buddhism... the buddha, a long, long time ago, came to some conclusions that hold a lot more water than "das capital", "common sense", "the little red book", and "mein kampf" put together...

peace,
puck
  • deirdre
  • Proficient
  • Proficient
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 435
  • Loc: New England Seacoast

Post 3+ Months Ago

Inherently bad ... lacks motivation. Also, I am not going to think a lazy cow who sits on her fat a$$ watching soap operas and game shows while smoking cigarettes and swilling soda -for example- all day is my equal. etc.
  • Dragon
  • Proficient
  • Proficient
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 409
  • Loc: USA

Post 3+ Months Ago

Though communism suggest equality in a society, it doesn't stops an individual from accomplishing an individual success, Now what is success for you and me might differ in campuses of interpretations.

I lived in a communist country myself, Education is Free (Including higher level Education), and Medicine is FREE (Need a brain surgery? Go to the hospital for FREE)
However there are many down sides to the system, unfortunately the decade agoviated the economic posture of the country and it's communist leader wants a nation to accomplish something they are not ready for.

My country is an equanimity I would say, it is going to be extremely weird to see a high school kid working at a Job. You will not see such an intense level of racism in society. If you need sugar, go ask your neighbor I’m sure he/she will help you out. You can walk on the streets late at night peacefully. Though salaries are part of a family income, it is not their only economic resource. Every Family has one way or another to gain what they need to survive.

However yesterday and today humans live with greedy minds, always wanting more. An example of that... my family... Though I had a decent life in Cuba we came to the US for numerous reasons including family reunions, greed for economic growth, civilization maybe in my side, etc...

Living here I felt many differences in comparison with my old communist country, I not only saw people looking down on others, living by rules of libertinism, drugs in educative atmospheres, an intense amount of autosuficient from many individuals, people treating each others as if they were treating machines and many other things that made me look down.

I remember sitting in a classroom and instead of the old teacher I remembered in Cuba which I thought of more of a friend, I was looking at a Computer trying to transmit data into an agitated class.


I could simplely go on and on in my experience in a Communist contry. I would say that the factors that currently doesn't allows a pefect communist atmosphere are:
1. The Decade on which we live.
Out current modern human, not very different from our caveman, who judges success accoding to what they have not what they have done, is not ready for a place where who has the greatest car or the biggest house if not a problem. It's not ready to stop looking down on others. It's not ready to let go the old libertinist mind. It's not ready for many things involved in Communism.

2. Economy
A contry where it's residents are not at the rate of other contried will want to leave in search of a better life or "the american dream?" yeah... Thus as humans of today we don't live with what we need we live with what we want...


The Idea of Communism is many times also misinterpreted. I have seen many ignorants call other people "oh you communist" not even knowing the meaning behind it. Like I already stated, communism doesn;t interfers from individual success, thus in many occasions individual success leads to society's success. Communism will try to adapt an atmosphere on which no human is better than others. God put you here just like he did with me. Thus there is always space for intellectual growth and edification of a better society. In a communist atmosphere, your neighbor is not a stranger, he is that which will take care of your kids if you need to travel. Your neighbor is what we know as your family.
I could go on and on, and though this idea of equality cound sound very good, when it is tried to be placed on today's humanity, it becomes impossible fro the majorities because of the already stated problems.

Now, some of you might read this and will get ready to explode with a discussion, however the already stated is a my personal oppinion of what I've seen. Many other Cubans would rather say communism is bull S...
it's up to the personal beliefs which are ruled by past experiences...
  • sly1340
  • Graduate
  • Graduate
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 238
  • Loc: not available

Post 3+ Months Ago

ight deleted, alot of inaccurate stuff
  • meman
  • Web Master
  • Web Master
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 3432
  • Loc: London Town , Apples and pears and all that crap

Post 3+ Months Ago

And that would be a bad thing why?

(though communism dosnt quite work like that)
  • Dragon
  • Proficient
  • Proficient
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 409
  • Loc: USA

Post 3+ Months Ago

meman wrote:
(though communism dosnt quite work like that)


You said it...
  • joebert
  • Fart Bubbles
  • Genius
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 13502
  • Loc: Florida

Post 3+ Months Ago

According to gennetics, all people are not created equal & I don't believe economics should be based on an idea that people are.
  • GSlinger
  • Proficient
  • Proficient
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 384
  • Loc: Ohio

Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
People keep saying how in theory, communism is great. But they're talking about a bad theory. Just like I could say that in theory, gravity increases as you get further away from the Earth. Which is also a bad theory.

Theoretically, communism is flawed, if you ask me. It's not just a matter of practicality.


theoretically, every theory is flawed. human error is not a predictable parameter in theories. there is something, whether or not we have found it yet, that is wrong with every theory. maybe we havent found it out yet, but its there.
when i say theory, i mean social theories. scientific theories are mathmatical mostly. but if a human is involved, something is goin to eventually pop up.

i personally believe about the same way as ScienceOfSpock.
  • Dragon
  • Proficient
  • Proficient
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 409
  • Loc: USA

Post 3+ Months Ago

joebert wrote:
According to gennetics, all people are not created equal & I don't believe economics should be based on an idea that people are.


Who said communism says everyone is equal, communism it tries to maintain an equalitary and fair enviroment in a society, however it doesn;t means you and your neighbor should be or have the same ideals and goods as you do...

Take a moment and think, what do you consider individual success? What is what you consider living the good life, for some it might be having a big house and lots of money, other might say been happy, well imagine that what you consider the top of the hill to a successful life. Would you be happy living that life? Now... would you be happy if everyone else had the same happy life?

As we all know, it's human nature to always want more and more. Your neighbor bought a big TV, you want a bigger one... Do you realize that the life you live today is many peoples' dream in othe parts of this small planet....
  • roarmeow
  • Professor
  • Professor
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 861
  • Loc: BKNY

Post 3+ Months Ago

joebert wrote:
According to gennetics, all people are not created equal & I don't believe economics should be based on an idea that people are.


number one - where are folks getting this idea that communism is predicated on 'all people are created equal'? that idea ia not built into communism...

you want to know where that idea is explicitly built in?
the united states declaration of independence:
ben franklin wrote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


and if y'all are trying to promote capitalism implicitly in your derision of communism, i got a couple of words for you:
enron, fannie mae, halliburton, coca cola, united fruit, the list goes on...
you wanna ask a 15-year-old girl losing her eyesight in guatemala sewing 10$ t-shirts for the gap what she thinks of capitalist theory vs. reality?

in any case, none of these systems can ever succeed because they're not built on the only foundation capable of really lifting our species up to the level of evolution other species reached long ago...
that foundation is compassion.

real compassion... none of this stuff that passes for 'compassion' these days... where invading a non-aggressive country or two is considered 'compassionate'... i'm talking about a compassion that will not allow you to kill another human being except in the strictest of self-defensive situations...

i'm talking about a compassion that includes compassion for all beings in this world... a compassionate consciousness spoken of by jesus, the buddha, confucius, mohammed, deepak chopra, bell hooks, gil scott heron, pema chodron, the dalai lama, thich nhat hanh, daniel ellsberg, mahatma ghandi, the list goes on...

none of these people were outward proponents of any economic system... and for a reason... because economic systems, especially those formulated and 'logicked-out' in the west, do not consider the human factor... the human experience factor... not to mention the impact of such systems on larger eco-systems...

when someone comes up with an economic system that does speak to that... i'll listen... til then, i'll make mine and give it back, wherever i'm living...
  • deirdre
  • Proficient
  • Proficient
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 435
  • Loc: New England Seacoast

Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
Communism
A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.
  • roarmeow
  • Professor
  • Professor
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 861
  • Loc: BKNY

Post 3+ Months Ago

deirdre wrote:
Quote:
Communism
A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.


note a subtle but significant difference between 'all people are created equal' and 'all goods are equally shared by the people.'

that difference is key - communism does not define people as all being equal - even according to your definition (from what source?), that's not the case...

one possible impression your definition allows is that goods are divided equally among the people - and i just want to head this off at the pass, because this is the impression imparted by those who argue that a lawyer and a couch potato would get the same 'wage'...

the doctrine of communism proposes the abolition of private property. part of the argument behind this is that, without the destructive aspects of competition (industrial espionage, incompatability of competing products, huge advertising and marketing budgets, etc.) and advertising (including the production and consumption of countless amounts of worthless goods simply for the production of profits [for instance, really cheap kitchen knives, which happen to be the bane of my existence, sold on telivision all over the world])...
the potential productive capabilities of a post-industrial, post-agricultural where labor is valued are enormous.

in other words, with the labour hours freed from the wastes of capitalism, a world society would be able to do much more than provide for a comfortable existence for all its citizens...

if you think of the unemployment rates worldwide and compare those to:
a) the hordes of overworked people (including IT staff, you know you know!!!)
b) the enormous amount of work that goes undone (environmental cleanup, development of sustainable energy/agriculture/etc. resources, road work, public transportation development, arts, music, dance, international arbitration, education [i've worked in 30+ student classrooms and i've spoken with teachers who've had 60 kids in a class... in the u.s. of a.)
c) i know there's more... y'all can think of 'em...

put those together and you see that communism is built on a much more strong foundation than simply paying everyone the same amount regardless of how much they work or what skill level they are...

that's just a facile description promoted by a culture of capitalism that has gone so far as to install lopsided regimes all over the planet through seas of blood...

i mean, dang... we invaded vietnam because the people were rising up under a communist flag - and the u.s. party line was "ooooh, china's expanding... we gotta stop red china", when really the people of vietnam had been fighting the chinese for a thousand years before there even was a u.s.a. and even the viet cong had no intentions (up until they were up to their necks in their people's blood) of even talking with china about mutual assistance...

but, yo, back to the line i'm pushing... if anyone's interested in whose rhetoric i'm pushing, check out:
touching peace, by thich nhat hanh (being peace is great, too)
secrets, by daniel ellsberg
shambhalla, by chogyam trungpa rinpoche
power politics, by arundhati roy
patriarchy and accumulation on a world scale, maria mies

and, on some whole other tip...

deidre,
i know this is a little overdue, but..
go bosox...
as a native new yorker, i just gotta hand it to you...
i was happy as all get out to see y'all kick the yankees' butt...
  • Anonymous
  • Bot
  • No Avatar
  • Posts: ?
  • Loc: Ozzuland
  • Status: Online

Post 3+ Months Ago

Post Information

  • Total Posts in this topic: 53 posts
  • Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 45 guests
  • You cannot post new topics in this forum
  • You cannot reply to topics in this forum
  • You cannot edit your posts in this forum
  • You cannot delete your posts in this forum
  • You cannot post attachments in this forum
 
 

© 1998-2014. Ozzu® is a registered trademark of Unmelted, LLC.