Failing Financial Institutions

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Post 3+ Months Ago

Does anyone else feel like we should be worried? Just a little? Maybe?

Quote:
The fast-paced changes capped a roller-coaster Wall Street weekend and threatened to stir up U.S. financial markets already reeling from woes at other major financial firms and mortgage financing titans Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

"This crisis is clearly deeper than anybody had imagined only a short time ago," Peter Stein, an associate editor at The Wall Street Journal in Asia, told CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/09/15/banks. ... index.html



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September 14, 2008, 5:53 pm
The Mother of All Mondays
Posted by Tim Annett
Investors world-wide have rarely rolled out of bed to face a Monday morning quite like the one they’ll contend with this Monday.
http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2008/09 ... l-mondays/
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Post 3+ Months Ago

It's a nightmare everywhere at the moment. How can the economy go from being so strong to collapsing like this?

Businesses all over the place are going bust every day with one being the third largest holiday orginisation in the UK. Airlines too are going bust, and i see that one of the main banks in the US is now bankrupt.

I don't have much optimism for anything right now.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Today was the largest one day drop in the DOW since September 11, 2001 when the terrorist attacks took place on US soil. My portfolio dropped 11% today.

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Investors reacted badly to a shakeup of the financial industry that took out two storied names: Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and Merrill Lynch & Co.


http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080915/wall_street.html
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Post 3+ Months Ago

The Turner Diaries wrote:
As long as the government can keep the economy somehow gasping and wheezing along, the public can be conditioned to accept an outrage.


I work with this lady who is all into the conspiracy theories and stuff, and she thinks that the airlines that are going bust and raising prices and stuff is to limit the amount people travel down to driving distance. And then the high gas prices limit how much we drive, effectively detaining us against our will without us actually knowing about it. It's a good theory, but it isn't completely water tight.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

i'M Stocking up on Ammo........ just in case! lol
  • joebert
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Post 3+ Months Ago

NOW, is the time to start borrowing money. :D
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Post 3+ Months Ago

joebert wrote:
NOW, is the time to start borrowing money. :D

:lol:


Which bank was it that went bankrupt?
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Bogey wrote:
Which bank was it that went bankrupt?


Lehman Brothers Investment Bank went bankrupt and Merrill Lynch was on the verge but got bought up by Bank o' America . This is on the heels of the government taking over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac which was on the heels of the government bailing out Bear Stearns.

From what I understand AIG is next.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Last I read on the situation the US started out with 5 major banks at the beginnig of 2008, and there will be only 2 at the end of the year.

It's strange seeing this, a lot of the names going under are ones I'd come to know as "Bigger than Government" in a sense while growing up.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I'm banking with Commerce Bank... I don't think they are going bankrupt are they? I've grown to trust them :P
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Post 3+ Months Ago

My bank is called Tier One, I think they are a pretty small regional bank. I'm not sure if banking with a small bank is better or worse than banking with a big bank. Big banks have more to loose and make a bigger crater when they blow up, but small banks don't have as good of Plan B's and Plan C's and Plan D's that the big banks have.
  • digitalMedia
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I don't think you all need to worry. These were big players in the mortgage business. They failed because of poor regulatory policy from the Feds and too much zeal (a.k.a. greed) in sub-prime lending. Most banks, the ones we do our 'banking' at, are fine and still insured by the Feds.

This is a major reshuffling of the big players in finance, though, and that's why it's unnerving. You can see the effect it had on the market yesterday.

Hopefully, the remaining players will all settle down and get back to where they need to be. While Bank of America looks like it's going to come out on top of all this, at the same time they'll be acquiring a lot of bad paper, too.

For years, certain political elements have been carrying the banner of "deregulation" and "no regulation". These events are a damn good arguments against that.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

It's nice to see the top executives of these banks are being denied their multi-million dollar severance packages by the Government.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Some interesting news from this side of the pond is two of the biggest banks in the UK are in talks of a merger. I can't help but think that if the talks fail then one of them is going to go bust. I am lead to think this because that's exactly what was happening with the Lehman Brothers bank.

The UK banks in merger talks are the HBOS (Halifax Bank of Scotland) and Lloyds TSB. Both of these banks merged with other banks in the past when Halifax bought over the Bank of Scotland and Lloyds bought over the TSB bank (Trustee Savings Bank). So, this gives you an idea on how big a deal this is going to be if it goes ahead. I really hope it does as i don't think anyone wants to hear of any more banks going bust.

I'm with the Royal Bank of Scotland which i was lead to believe as being one of the biggest and strongest banks in the world, so i'm pretty confident things are going to be okay with them although at the beginning of this "Credit Crunch" there was a little bit of fear.
  • joebert
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Looks like AIG will be sticking around.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... QAz6YiyRAI
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Post 3+ Months Ago

that bank merger in the UK is more or less a done deal...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7622180.stm
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Alitalia almost collapsed yesterday, we were wondering for the whole week whether we'd still have a flight back from Rome (business trip) or whether we'll have to rent bikes to the shoreline and then swim across the adriatic... obviously berlusconi did something magical though, it flew alright.

BTW is it just me, or do Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac sound like a fat couple running a bakery in a really small town somewhere down south?
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Post 3+ Months Ago

They do, I honestly had never hear of them until this implosion and I thought the news was playing some sort of weird joke.
  • grinch2171
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I had heard of Fannie because we had a loan through them a few years ago. But Freddie was a new one on me.
  • digitalMedia
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Post 3+ Months Ago

No more investment banks. I love how they're doing this stuff on Sunday nights.

Quote:
Federal regulators converted Wall Street's remaining stand-alone investment banks - Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley - into bank holding companies Sunday night.


http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/21/news/co ... /index.htm


Jim Cramer for President!
  • digitalMedia
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I think while the government is absolving these big corporates of their sins, they oughta just go ahead and pay off my credit cards too. I mean really, I would be so much more fiscally viable if they did that. I'm sure it would make a real impact on the economy and markets of the world.
  • grinch2171
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I'm with you on that dM.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I've got no credit cards and only one outstanding loan, but maybe giving at least a sizeable percentage of a relief on credit card debt would help things. And another credit card deal that might help, a lot of expensive stuff says that you can make easy payments spread out over a certain amount of time instead of paying a lump sum all at once. That is just a credit card that you apply for in most cases, they should outlaw stuff like that too.

I think that all came out as rubbish, its still early in the morning.
  • joebert
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I'd rather see peoples mortgages paid than their credit cards.

Credit cards are the worst invention of all time.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Agreed.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Hear! Hear!

...and $5 says I'll recieve at least 2 snail-mail-spams for pre-approved unsecured credit today. :lol:
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I get emails every other day from creditors thinking I'm my dad because I'm the III and he's JR. On top of the ones I get for me.

And if ou think that's bad, when I attempt to sign up for one they act like I'm trying to fraudulently apply for credit in my dead grandfathers name.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Go figure that one out House! :lol:
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Washington Mutal...another one bites the dust.

On bailout legislation: Is anyone else feeling like we're on a car lot with a high pressure salesman trying to put us into a AMC Pacer for double the sticker value? I mean, I'm not even sure why we should be panicked. Everytime news commentators ask someone to explain this in English, they say something about it being complicated, they drop the word depression and then sidestep the question entirely.

After watching Mr. Bush on TV the other night...yeah...well it's Mr. Bush, afterall. Even in his own party he's the guy that farted in the elevator.

I'm glad house Republicans have slowed this legislation down. Although, the only solutions I've heard from them seem like more deregulation.
  • grinch2171
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Post 3+ Months Ago

They need to take that 700 billion and split it among all of us taxpayers. A guy I work with heard about a bunch of people requesting this at the tune of $400,000 per taxpayer. I wouldn't mind getting that check in the mail.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

grinch2171 wrote:
They need to take that 700 billion and split it among all of us taxpayers. A guy I work with heard about a bunch of people requesting this at the tune of $400,000 per taxpayer. I wouldn't mind getting that check in the mail.


I'm in! Where do I sign? :)
  • joebert
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Quote:
They need to take that 700 billion and split it among all of us taxpayers. A guy I work with heard about a bunch of people requesting this at the tune of $400,000 per taxpayer. I wouldn't mind getting that check in the mail.


I wouldn't mind either, it wouldn't be fair though. I'm a tax payer & I doubt I've made $400,000 in my life, let alone payed that much in taxes.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

But why should failing institutions be bailed out because they tried to get rich off the people?

The bailout is equal to every man, woman and child in America paying roughly $2300. Thanks for the stimulus checks guys, you should have just kept it.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Maybe we should consider the possibility that we just don't spend $700 BILLION on anything. I'm not sure there's a fire to be put out. There's not even a metric to determine how they got to that number.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I'm not sure either. No one can really say what will happen if the government doesn't bail anyone out. The word depression gets thrown around but do they really know. The bailout will weaken the dollar which will drive oil up again. People may be able to keep their homes but why should they? They shouldn't have agreed to the loan in the first place. Let them all fail and maybe they will learn their lesson and we will be a better country for it.
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digitalMedia wrote:
I mean, I'm not even sure why we should be panicked. Everytime news commentators ask someone to explain this in English, they say something about it being complicated, they drop the word depression and then sidestep the question entirely.


This is exactly why I quit watching the news and reading the papers. It almost seems to me like the major news outlets are creating a panic amongst the public just to have another news story the next day. I believe it was Garfield who said "If its on tv it must be true". If the lay people see that two or three rich guys are going broke, then it it must be the bad economy, panic!!! This bailout crap is a big deal, but I think Brian Williams and his media buddies are making things worse than they really are. NPR is the one news outlet I will pay attention too, they just seem to present the information in the least subjective way.
  • joebert
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Quote:
But why should failing institutions be bailed out because they tried to get rich off the people?


From what I've seen on the news, investors like Warren Buffet & Donald Trump seem to think the US Government stands to make a lot of money by going through with this bail out.

If that happens, tax payers will either pay less taxes for a time later, or the money will go to improving the quality of life in the US.


I don't know much about stocks, bonds, and all of that, but I do know that the best investments are always made in proven companies suffering during hard times.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

kc0tma wrote:
It almost seems to me like the major news outlets are creating a panic amongst the public just to have another news story the next day.



Well, I can agree with the suspicion of the panic. But, as far as news outlets creating it? I don't think so. The guys that hit the big read panic button are Mr. Bush, Mr. Paulson and Mr. Bernake.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Media outlets aren't the root cause of the panic (financial crisis is), but they are feeding the fire.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Fair enough.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Some times I wish I could just cut all ties with the modern world and just go out to the mountains and be like Jeremiah Johnson and just wander around and fend for myself. That would be the life......
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Post 3+ Months Ago

700 billion is about 3 years of how much the government gets from collecting taxes from us (heard that on the news). It is also more money than we have spent on the Iraq war. That is an insane amount they are spending for this bailout.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I've got a sad sob story to tell here. It's getting toward the end of the month and bills are piling up, so last night I called my banks automated thing to see how much money I had, about $300. So I payed my motorcycle loan payment and insurance on my motorcycle loan, $65 left in my account. That is the closest I have been to going in the hole since high school, and it is a damn good thing today was payday because rent is due in a few days. That's not good, and I know for a fact that there are entire families who have it worse than I do. I applaud those families who can scratch along and still keep a smile on their face. Just think how much better things would be if we didn't have the Iraq debt and if oil\gas prices weren't so high.

Today after work I'm dropping my cell phone plan and maybe dropping my internet, that will save me $50 and $40 a month respectively. And no more eating out either, another $100 a month saved. That will hopefully make a bit of a difference.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

It's nice to see the top executives of these banks are being denied their multi-million dollar severance packages by the Government.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

susanqy2 wrote:
It's nice to see the top executives of these banks are being denied their multi-million dollar severance packages by the Government.


I doubt it will take most companies and CEOs more than 5 minutes to figure out how they're going to get paid. ;) I mean really, I think we all recognize that bit as fluff.

Personally, I hope the current bailout bill fails. I think its premise is too flawed.

Lots of people made bad and greedy decisions. So we're going to erase their mistakes to let them continue making bad and greedy decisions - for our own good? Thanks, but no thanks.

They can add all the fluffy stuff they want to this legislation, it's still just perfuming a turd.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Damn, they passed it pretty easily too. So we shall see how this is going to help us in the long run.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

If the US government has $700B to go throwing around, they should have led by example and paid off the national debt first.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I don't believe we have $700B to just throw around. It will increase our national debt.
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Exactly what I was saying. If the money was even in existence, paying debts would be the responsible thing to do. Just like how if you get a loan for the car and your payments are only $150 a month but you can afford to pay $250, then go for it and be done with your debt that much sooner.
  • joebert
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Screw programming, I'm going to get into Politics.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

THE 700 BILLION DOES NOT EXIST, IT IS MONEY CREATED FROM NOTHING BY THE FEDERAL RESERVE. THE FED IS OWNED BY OTHER BANKS, IT IS A PRIVATE BANK, SAME AS THE BANK OF ENGLAND, THERE IS NOTHING FEDERAL ABOUT IT. They print the money, charge interest on this money to the government. The only people that win from this system are the big banks. So the 700 billion is printed out of thin ait, loaned to the government and interest is charged, then it is loaned back to the banks at a lower interest rate. The interest paid by government is collected in only one way, TAXES!

Here is an excerp from an article my company published way back in July in a blog. It makes for very interesting reading.

In 1694 the world's first privately owned central bank was created. It was to be called the Bank of England. The Bank's charter included the following immortal words: "The bank hath benefit on the interest on all monies which it creates out of nothing."

Full article is here:

http://www.beanrocket.com/lease2u/3701/ ... al%3F.html
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I read something somewhere about some of this $700 billion being put towards funding small business something or another.

Anyone know what I'm talking about and where I can find out more about it ?
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Post 3+ Months Ago

calvi36 wrote:
THE FED IS OWNED BY OTHER BANKS, IT IS A PRIVATE BANK, SAME AS THE BANK OF ENGLAND, THERE IS NOTHING FEDERAL ABOUT IT...


While I agree that this action is wrong, the "Fed" is not a private institution, actually. While it has private parts( hehehehe -private parts :) ) it is a governmental institution. I don't know about the Bank of England in that regard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_reserve

I've heard this argument about the Fed before. It's usually espoused by people who believe, erroneously, that paying income tax is illegal or optional.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Paying taxes actually is optional, in a sense.

You can chose to either pay taxes, or find things to write off instead.
Wealthy people don't pay taxes, they write everything off.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

digitalMedia wrote:
calvi36 wrote:
THE FED IS OWNED BY OTHER BANKS, IT IS A PRIVATE BANK, SAME AS THE BANK OF ENGLAND, THERE IS NOTHING FEDERAL ABOUT IT...


While I agree that this action is wrong, the "Fed" is not a private institution, actually. While it has private parts( hehehehe -private parts :) ) it is a governmental institution. I don't know about the Bank of England in that regard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_reserve

I've heard this argument about the Fed before. It's usually espoused by people who believe, erroneously, that paying income tax is illegal or optional.



Hi DM,

Don't take my word for it bud. Listen to what your own countrymen say about it, especially Greenspan.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=eab_1222880177
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I claim everything I can as a deduction but that's only to calculate a "taxable income".
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Post 3+ Months Ago

calvi36 wrote:
Hi DM,

Don't take my word for it bud. Listen to what your own countrymen say about it, especially Greenspan.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=eab_1222880177


No offense friend, but I think I'm going to go with Wiki on this one. ;)
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DM, here are another two for you, from inside the Fed. It's a part 1 part 2 set.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=09c_1212482197

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f35_1212483744

Amazing what is going on under peoples noses!
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Post 3+ Months Ago

joebert wrote:
Quote:
But why should failing institutions be bailed out because they tried to get rich off the people?


From what I've seen on the news, investors like Warren Buffet & Donald Trump seem to think the US Government stands to make a lot of money by going through with this bail out.

If that happens, tax payers will either pay less taxes for a time later, or the money will go to improving the quality of life in the US.


I don't know much about stocks, bonds, and all of that, but I do know that the best investments are always made in proven companies suffering during hard times.


Reality check here Joe!

We have seen oil prices drop by 30% have we seen fuel prices drop at the pumps by the same percentage?

We have seen the prices on gas( natural gas for our American friends) go up by 25%-40% in the UK. Electricity prices by the same amount. Don't you get it? Are our noses blocked? Why can't we smell the coffee? Simple reason is this, THEY don't want us to smell no coffee.

Money will not go into improving quality of life, the only way anyone gets a quality of life is by borrowing, which equals credit which equals the same vicious circle.

The banks should have been bankrupted as they have done to millions of people world wide.

Does my government care about small businesses like mine? Do they *peach* (excuse the language) I am so pissed off with this. It is fabricated.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

What the hell are you bitching about, you're in Scotland !
  • calvi36
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Hi Joe,

I was not bitching as you put it. Let me explain.

Our fuel prices have gone through the roof, our banks are collapsing. This is due to the knock on effect of the USA sub prime mortgage market.

Banks lend to banks at LIBOR rates, this has ceased due to this USA caused crash. The LIBOR rates have touched at times 11%, what this means is this, if you go to take a loan or a mortgage then you will see the rates are a lot higher than they used to be, why?

Well imagine you me and DM were all banks. I had a customer who wanted a mortgage to buy his new house. In the past you would have loaned me the money to put the mortgage in place for the customer. But you want to loan me the money at 11%, I cannot afford this rate so I ask DM, can you loan it, he says yes at 11%. So we find ourselves in the situation where, Joe can't lend to Pete due to rates and risk, DM can't lend to Pete for the same reason. So Pete therefore cannot lend to his customer due to no funds being available!

So the market stagnates, no lending means no future income or interest if you like.

The problem with banks is this. They always loan out more than their net worth. Say bank A has 200 million in deposits, they will normally, in a frugal estimate, lend five times this amount. they will then sell the new assets (loans) to other banks or hedge funds.

When you find there is a "run" on a bank, this means depositors are withdrawing their money at a faster rate than the banks have money to supply, ie they don't have enough money and have to borrow from other banks.So what happens when the bank cannot borrow from other banks? The bank will then fail as the bank does not have enough money to pay back all it's depositors. there are some cracking articles and vids, just g it under the term, money changers.

Joe, I have written a full article on this posted here

http://www.beanrocket.com/lease2u/3701/ ... al%3F.html


This is just a blog I write Joe, means nothing other than a blog, so it's not spamming ozzu, I never would.

Yes I am in Scotland, Joe. I do however have an interest in the politics of the USA as they normally affect the rest of the world. The knock on effect from the US sub prime mortgage fiasco is horrendous. I hope that i have not been teaching you to suck eggs bud.

You are definitely not a stupid man and I guess you took wrong end of the stick with my quote and post to yours.

I meant no insult nor umbridge.

Best regards,

Pete

PS. DM can you lend me £10 as I am so broke?
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Well let me tell you what Mr Calvi, I have $38US in the bank. Yes you read right, thirty-eight dollars. What ever that has to do with a $700B transaction or high oil prices I'll let you speculate because you seem to do a lot of that. But I figure that since I've got next to nothing, then it isn't going to hurt as bad when the manure hits the rotary oscillator. In fact, I almost like being borderline penniless. It's almost like a bit of an adventure, I like being resourceful and self sufficient. I didn't agree with this $700B bailout because if the US government had that money then they could have been a good example to the American people and paid off the national debt, and I especially don't like it because my own state representatives Ben Nelsen and Chuck Hagel both publicly denounced the bailout just minuted after voting for it (read this). But I am just a peon civilian and the Big Shots don't even know I exist. So since I don't exist to them, then I guess I'm on my own and fending for myself. That means they can do what ever the hell they want, just so long as they don't start knocking on my door to do searches or inspections or anything. But none of this should matter to you because this big buck spending spree MY government has taken isn't going to be paid out of YOUR taxes. You think you're being affected equally or more than us? Think again, buster.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

AIG company has branches all over the world.
My father has an AIG insurance policy.
I have heard AIG may also face bankruptcy problems !
what could this mean ?
  • digitalMedia
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Post 3+ Months Ago

calvi36:
I don't understand what point you're championing here. Your arguments seem to be based on stating the obvious and quoting statistics...as gleaned from almost any newscast these days.

The videos you linked to are akin to Bible codes in terms of their non-sequitur findings, IMO.

Quote:
I hope that i have not been teaching you to suck eggs bud.


I wouldn't worry about that.
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This is the biggest open secret on the planet, most people don’t know this secret because THEY DON’T WANT TO KNOW because when they do know, they don’t know what to do with the information and they prefer to leave decisions to someone else. The vast, vast majority of people prefer to abdicate their responsibilities, it is why they go to the doctor and expect to be cured by a pill when in over 80% of cases they could change their life style, just a little, and not be ill. It is the reason why insurance companies exist and why governments are elected and even why ready meals are being sold in larger and larger quantities. It is why organised religion exists, why ambulance chasing ‘no win - on fee’ solicitors exist and why millions watch football instead of playing. There are hundreds of examples in modern day life of abdicating personal responsibilities. Finance & understanding it, is just another of those examples.

The Truth about Money and the Economy &

How We can Benefit from this Knowledge:

by Fred Turner © This work is copyright protected and is for the benefit of the very few people close to me. Prepare to have your eyes opened & Enjoy! Thanks to my good friends at one of the best companies that I know of, for supplying my three cars. They are a small company trying to fight against the big boys. That’s why I give them permission to post this article wherever they see fit.

First a quotation:

“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a money aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from banks, and restored to the people.” Thomas Jefferson

Are you aware that the USA was threatened with martial law if the bailout had not been passed? Don't believe me, have a look here>>>>>>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnbNm6hoBXc

or here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnbNm6hoBXc

Money was originally invented as a convenient alternative to barter, an alternative without which a highly developed civilisation, like ours, could not exist.Imagine trying to pay the taxi driver with a bag of coal or the grocery bill with a box of spanners and a set of golf clubs. Imagine trying to carry all that around with you when you go shopping. As societies grew more complex and social roles became more specialised, the idea of money was conceived as a better and more flexible way to exchange, and thereby distribute among men, goods and services.

Money is quite simply an idea! Agreed upon among people that some system of tokens or symbols: discs of metal (coins) paper with symbols on it (notes) and so on, will be used by them to represent or stand proxy for goods and services and that those tokens can be exchanged for goods and services. One can then exchange the tokens rather than bags of coal, boxes of spanners or what-have-you and the tokens are easy to carry around. Its workability depends upon the participants’ confidence that those tokens are and will continue to be exchangeable for a certain amount of goods or services.That’s all money is. It is no more complicated than that, although men may try to make it seem complex and hard to understand. The truth however is, as truths tend to be, simple; it is alterations of the truth - lies -that are complicated.

(see the end of this writing if you want to know more, most people will know this but may not have given it much thought so the details are shown at the end.)

THE ECCONOMY IS NOT BASED UPON WEALTH BUT UPON DEBT: WITHOUT DEBT

THE ECCONOMY WOULD COLLAPSE: SEE WHY:

LOOK HOW IT STARTED WITH GOLDSMITHS

In the old days gold was minted into coins and those coins, along with silver coins, formed the nation’s currency. Goldsmiths had strongboxes and vaults in which to securely store the precious metal with which they worked. It was natural enough then that other people took to asking the goldsmith to store their gold and gold coins in his vault and to pay the goldsmith for the service. A merchant (for example) would entrust to the goldsmith £20 worth of his own gold for safekeeping. When he handed over his gold, the goldsmith would provide him with a receipt or note promising to hand back the gold (pay the bearer on demand, still used on our notes today.) whenever the depositor returned and presented the note. The receipt held by the depositor was in fact as good as gold because he could exchange it for his £20 worth of gold any time he chose. But the note was easier to carry around than heavy and bulky amounts of gold and easier to conceal, so the depositor was often content to leave his gold in the goldsmith’s safekeeping for long periods. In fact when the time came to pay for some commodity with his £20 of gold, instead of returning to the goldsmith, exchanging the receipt for the gold and then using the gold to pay for his purchase, it was more convenient for him simply to hand over his receipt to the seller. The seller was happy to accept the receipt in lieu of actual gold because it was more convenient to carry around and he knew that should he present it to the goldsmith, £20 of gold would be handed over to him.Thus those gold receipts began to circulate and became the first paper money. People were happy to exchange them back and forth rather than the cumbersome gold they represented. The receipts had value because people were confident that in the goldsmith’s vault lay the gold, which they could redeem at any time.

Eventually, the goldsmiths noticed that the gold left by depositors remained in their vaults for longer and longer periods. People turned up wishing to exchange their receipts for gold less and less often, and that the receipts they had issued to depositors circulated in its place. It seemed a shame to have all that gold just sitting there doing nothing. Why not lend some of it out for a while? If it just sat there for year after year the owner, the holder of the receipt was not going to miss it if it were loaned to someone else for a period.

As long as there was enough gold in the vaults to satisfy anyone who did turn up with a receipt, then no-one would be any the wiser. So depositor Joe would leave £20 of gold with the goldsmith for safekeeping and depart with his receipt which he would then use as money in lieu of the gold and it would circulate. It might be years before anyone turned up with that £20 note asking for £20 of gold. Meanwhile Tom would turn up at the goldsmith’s asking to borrow £20 of gold and the goldsmith would lend it to him, demanding that it be paid back after a certain period at a certain amount of interest. But instead of lending Tom actual gold, the goldsmith would draw up a £20 receipt, just like the one depositor Joe had been given. Tom was happy to take the receipt in lieu of the gold because it was more convenient to carry around and people were happy to accept such receipts in payment for things.So Tom went off with his £20 note, content that through it he was now in temporary possession of £20 of gold. But unbeknownst to Tom, Joe also has a receipt representing that very same gold. In other words there are now two notes in circulation representing the same £20 of gold! Clearly the goldsmith’s issuance of two receipts for the same amount of gold is fraudulent - particularly when Tom repays the gold he believes he has borrowed in real gold. As each receipt promises to hand over the same £20 of gold on demand, the goldsmith is making a promise he knows he cannot keep.

Several things are clear at the moment the second receipt was issued and entered circulation: new money has been created out of thin air; that new money has been loaned into existence; as the loan has interest charged upon it, then a debt has also been created out of nothing, The Debt is the amount of loan Plus the amount of interest so the total DEBT is greater than the amount of new money created.

And another thing: Tom will eventually return to the goldsmith and repay his £20 loan, say at 10% interest. He will therefore hand the goldsmith, £22 in real gold. In other words, the goldsmith, in creating that bogus receipt and lending it to Tom, is creating for himself, albeit after a delay, real debt-free gold worth more than the new money he loaned into existence! It gets worse.

After a while the goldsmith, seeing that his fraud is working pretty well, thinks that if he can issue two £20 receipts against the same £20 of gold, then why not three or even four or five?

So Joe deposits £20 of gold and the goldsmith gives him his receipt. In time four other people turn up at his shop wanting to borrow that £20 of gold. The goldsmith obligingly lends it to each of them at interest, giving each a receipt purporting to represent that £20 of gold. There are now five receipts in circulation representing the same deposit of gold, one for the original depositor and one for each of the four borrowers. For that deposit of £20, £80 (4x £20) of new money is created merely by writing on a fancy piece of paper a promise that the borrowers owe the Goldsmith £20 in gold each plus interest.

If (say) £2 of interest (10%) is charged on each loan, at the same time that £80 of new money is created out of thin air, a debt of £88 is also created out of thin air.

The borrower’s Property is held as security against these loans so if the borrower fails to repay with real gold the fraudulent piece of paper he borrowed upon, the goldsmith takes his property.

Each time the goldsmith lends £20 of bogus gold he charges 10% interest on the loan. By lending out £20 four times over and charging £2 interest on each loan, the goldsmith makes a whopping 40% (four times £2) in interest on the £20 “reserves” that were not even his to begin with! The goldsmith cannot lose and soon begins to amass a fortune from his fraud. It is the greatest get-rich-quick scheme ever invented. And it is, in essence, the basis of the modern banking system.

The goldsmiths of yesteryear became the bankers of today and although paper money and latterly electronic money took over from gold, essentially the same fraud is being run.

BANKERS

The business of lending pieces of paper pretending to be gold made the goldsmiths very wealthy and very influential men. Their easy wealth enabled them to move to upmarket premises. They became pillars of the community and some even became international financiers, lending money to king’s countries and governments.In the seventeenth century in England, conflict between the bankers of the day and the Stuarts led the bankers to act in concert with bankers in Europe. They joined forces with those in the Netherlands to finance the invasion of England by William of Orange. William overthrew the Stuart Kings in 1688 and became King William III.

By the end of the 1600s England was in financial ruin, gold and silver supplies were running low and a costly civil war followed by costly wars with France and Holland, all in a fifty year period, it had left her (England) heavily in debt.

Government officials met with the financiers to negotiate the loans they needed. King William was £20 million in debt and he could not pay his army. Apparently it did not occur to William or anyone that if William needed to pay his army or get the economy going, all he had to do was have the government print its own money and use that to pay the troops -something that Abraham Lincoln would do successfully during the American Civil war nearly two hundred years later!King William’s “friends”, the bankers, were willing to loan him the money he needed but the price they wanted for their “help” was high. They wanted a government-sanctioned but privately owned central bank that could; through fractional reserve lending, create money out of nothing and loan it to the government.

They got their way. In 1694 the world’s first privately owned central bank was created. It was to be called the Bank of England. The Bank’s charter included the following immortal words:

“The bank hath benefit on the interest on all monies which it creates out of nothing.”

Instead of exercising its right to create money and spend it into the economy, the government had the bank create it, then lend it to the government so that the government could spend it into the economy, then pay the loans back later with interest, this money was to be collected from the working people as taxes. That completely unnecessary complication was to have devastating consequences for the futures of the English people.As well as delivering extraordinary power over the nation into the hands of a privately owned business banking corporation, it also began the National Debt, a debt that would go on increasing remorselessly over the ensuing years until it had reached around £380 billion in 1996, and costs us (the tax payer) around £30 billion a year in interest payments and is still climbing.

By the end of the 17th century, the goldsmiths’ scam had become respectable banking sanctioned and then legalized by the government of the day. The role of the banks in issuing money through lending to individuals and businesses had already become widely accepted. Thus there came to be established two routes by which money was borrowed into the economy: private and commercial borrowing on the one hand and government borrowing on the other. That combined debt in the present day has now soared to well over one trillion pounds. (I’m not sure how to express a trillion in zeros! An American billion and trillion are different to the UK’s! )

In 1704, just ten years after the creation of the Bank of England, the banks’ promissory notes, on the recommendation of the bankers and financiers who advised the government, were declared legal tender.

Although the new central bank was an entirely privately owned corporation, the name chosen for it (The Bank of England) led generations of Englishmen to believe that it was part of their government, when it most certainly was not. Exactly the same scenario as the American federal Reserve, it is not Federal, IT IS A PRIVATE BANKING CARTEL. Like any other privately owned corporation the new central bank sold shares to create its initial capital. Its investors - whose identities were never disclosed - were supposed to put up a total of £1 ¼ million in gold coin to purchase their shares. Only three quarters of a million was ever received, this shortfall and fraudulent action was never investigated or even questioned, merely documented.

Nevertheless, despite that minor technicality, the bank was chartered in 1694 and began the business of lending out several times (believed to be up to 10 times) the money it supposedly had in its reserves.

In exchange for this unique and immensely profitable privilege, the bank would very kindly lend the English, and later British, government as much money as it wanted, at interest of course, provided the debt was secured by direct taxation of the people.

THE MODERN INCARNATION OF FRAUD

What happens when you or I, or for that matter the government, borrow money from the bank? Prepare yourself for a surprise.Let’s say we want to borrow a £100,000 mortgage on a house. The bank or building society does what the goldsmith did and creates £100,000 out of thin air. Instead of handing us a paper certificate, it simply credits our bank account with the £100,000 and registers that £100,000 as a debt, with (say) a further £100,000 interest over 25 years. The money is simply penned into our account without any account anywhere being debited with the loaned money. New money is therefore created. Alongside it a debt (in this case £100,000 plus the roughly £100,000 of interest) is created. When we repay the debt, the interest is accounted as income for the bank. The £100,000 we originally borrowed is then withdrawn from circulation and is accounted as collateral for further lending; in turn it is loaned back into circulation when someone else borrows.

Our house is held as security so if we fail to keep up our repayments, the creditor takes possession of it. The repayments themselves can vary through no fault of our own, according to interest rates set by the banking industry. Over recent years The Bank of England, this privately owned company, has been given the power set what interest rates it wants to charge, completely independently from our elected government. In effect the privately owned company “The Bank of England” run the nations finances and therefore controls all of the tax paying population through their pockets!

After 25 years of blood sweat and tears we finally pay back the last instalment of the £200,000 capital-plus-interest we owed and the house in finally ours. It is not ours until that very final payment. Yet we all say, “I own my own home, with a mortgage.” Of course, that is a lie but that is how The Bank of England and the government want us to see it – and we oblige.The lender, who loaned us money which did not exist until the moment he created it out of nothing, winds up with £100,000 of interest on the loan: that is real, spendable income that comes courtesy of our real work and real wealth creation that we have toiled and spent 25 yrs working our fingers to the bone for. The numbers have been simplified to highlight the nature of the fraud and in practice the process is hidden under a great deal more complexity than I have shown here but this in essence, is the process of money creation. So we now own our own home. We are nearly 60 yrs old and we have a valuable asset to leave to our offspring, don’t we? Well, probably not as much as you might think. When we die if our “Estate” our net worth, is over a certain level then up to 50% of our wealth is confiscated from our estate in the form of Taxes. In the Uk this is called inheritance tax.Our offspring may not be able to afford to pay them unless they sell the property or take out a loan against it and the whole circle is repeated again. We have in fact exchanged our working lives just to exist and hand down potential debt, maybe a little wealth, to our offspring hopefully making their lives a little easier than our own.

Each time the banks create money they create a debt that is greater than the spending power they create. One can see too that each time they are creating a debt for the borrower; they are ultimately creating debt free money for themselves.

Before the goldsmiths’ scam began, the money in circulation was hard currency - usually gold or silver minted into coins which then circulated as the tokens used to represent goods and services. That minting and circulation of coinage was usually administered by the government or king.

However as soon as the goldsmiths’ certificates became used in lieu of gold, paper money had made an appearance. As soon as the goldsmiths began issuing paper notes for gold they did not actually have, the goldsmiths were themselves creating new money and lending it into circulation.

One can see that this establishes debt as the basis of our currency. Where once, long ago, the British pound represented something -so much gold or silver - it now represents so much debt, which is not only nothing, it is less than nothing. It is even easier to get into debt today than ever before. You can clearly see why banks need you to be in debt. Your debt on your home is secured by the property itself. Those who perpetrate this scam clearly value only one asset, not money, not gold but property. Nothing else! Other debt, not secured by property such as credit card debt, is high risk, or is it? Bearing in mind that they created that money and therefore that debt from nothing, then in reality they have nothing to risk yet it is called high risk because the actuality of the debt being repaid is less secure than when they hold the deeds to your property so they charge interest rates of up to 26% per annum so that those who do pay back their debt also pay for the defaulters who don’t. The more money lent and borrowed on unsecured debt, the greater the spending power of the people who borrowed it. The greater the spending power, the more buoyant the economy. The more money spent the dearer things become and the more taxes we pay. We are taxed when we inherit, we are taxed when we work, we are taxed on our profits, we are taxed when we spend, we are taxed when we borrow and we are taxed when we die. The beneficiaries are the Banks and the Governments a very few select people who control almost all of the wealth and therefore the people’s behaviour. That’s why, today’s democracy is merely a façade, a trick whereby we believe we have rights and power, in reality we are but puppets dancing to our master’s tune.

But wait! The banks have not done with your deeds just yet.

When you take out a mortgage and the bank keeps your deeds most people imaging that those deeds lay in a vault as you repay your mortgage thought the years. NOT A CHANCE! All lenders ‘bundle up’ groups of mortgage deeds into an ‘asset statement’ and sell that to other banks and lenders who use it for collateral or trade it in return. The money they get for selling on the deeds to your property frees up more capital so they can relend it and earn additional interest on it, then bundle, receive money, relend, earn additional interest … and on and on! This is called leverage. I warned you at the outset you didn’t really want to know this stuff!


“Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce. And when we realize that the entire system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by a few very powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and depression originate.”
U.S. President James Garfield.


A few weeks after making this statement, he was assassinated on July 12, 1818.

WHY?



Take care and may wealth be attracted to you, but then again, that’s up to you!: Fred Turner Sept 2007
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I think I need my special tin foil hat when I read this.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

So a short, concise history of how banking works invokes you to wear a tinfoil hat lol. I know it's a lot to take in and your head must hurt. As it states on the forum, general discussion, General and off topic threads containing intellectual discussion. I must be the only loony in here then pmsl. I don't think I need a tinfoil hat. I am far from being a conspiracy theorist. I think I may be an unusual human being called a realist with knowledge that may need helmet to protect myself from the fallout that is most certainly en route.

kc0tma, let me enlighten you on a few things you said.

"thirty-eight dollars. What ever that has to do with a $700B transaction or high oil prices"

Well buster, since we are mutual friends an all! Let's say that your 38 bucks were actually worth 36 bucks this time last month. ( I took two bucks in interest, just for typing this, it's called an administration fee!)

Oil is bought and sold by the barrel and bought and sold under the universal currency of the dollar. So let's imagine this. Oil was say $100 a barrel this time last month, this month it is say $200 a barrell. So lets say America bought 100 barrels last month for $10,000 and that America has only a further $10,000 to buy oil this month, they would then only be able to buy 50 barrels. The knock on effect is immediate, higher fuel prices to raise more dollars to be able to buy more oil next month. This is called currency devaluation in commodities.

In effect your 38 dollars would be woth 50% of what they were worth, get me?
So you may wonder why a few months ago gas was say $3 a gallon and now it is say $6? Your answer is that your currency is being devalued. This has came about not because of inflation but by the financial markets collapsing and begging for help. More dollars are then created by the Fed which inturn again further devalues the dollar!

I am well aware that other commodities influence rates of exchange, exmaples above are just simplified examples for people in tin hats!

By injecting a further 700 billion dollars into an already failing market this again further devalues the $ as a currency.

So your 38 bucks "buster" might be only worth a knob of goat crap and a broken biscuit next month if your country continues to support a failing financial system and devalue your currency even further.

It is worth noting that certain eastern countries have already switched to trading oil in Euros.

I am not dissing Americans, far from it. I am dissing your financial system (and the UK financial system) The Fed is modelled on the Bank Of England.. I am A political, I couldn't care less who wins your election as nothing will change, unless the people change and wake up. It is exactly the same in the UK.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

By saying I was wearing a tin foil hat I was not implying I am stupid or unable to understand what you are writing. I understand quite well what you are saying. It just strikes me as another conspiracy theory that prompts people to wear tin foil hats to avoid the government or alien beings from harvesting their thoughts.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

lol I know Grinch and my response involving the term "tinfoil hat" was tongue in cheek! I type this completely wrapped in tinfoil as i don't want "them" to know what my nether regions are thinking!
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Calvi, I think you missed my point more than I missed yours. My $38 (now $19) means that I've got less to lose. Lets say that the DOW were to plummet a good 10,000 points or something like that and people start rushing to the banks to get all their money out, but the bank doesn't have enough cash to pass out. So the rich dentist down the street might be at a million dollar loss, whereas I am at a $19 loss. And for material loss, I own some camping gear and a jeep and a tv and a couch and a mattress. My motorcycle is financed, so that is the only thing that could possibly be repossessed by the bank. Really though, I don't have anything to worry about because I am well capable of paying more than the minimum monthly payment and I'm far ahead on those payments.


And as far as the government reading our minds, maybe it can happen and maybe it can't. The year 1984 has come and gone and for the most part all is well and people don't seem to be watching over their shoulders for the Thought Police. If the government wants to know what I'm thinking, they're in for a lesson in impolite vocabulary.

And another thing for calvi and anyone else who cares before I end this monologue...These last couple of weeks that I have been near penniless have been some of the best and most productive I've had in a while. I haven't been eating out, I have been driving around less, I haven't been buying magazines off the news stand, I haven't ordered stuff I don't need off the internet. It's been great! I challenge you to go a week or two and be extremely cheap and pinch every single penny and see how you can handle it, because I bet you'll have a bit of a different outlook on this whole mess they've gotten themselves into. (I say they instead of we because I figure it's their fault and I really have nothing to do with it.)
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Post 3+ Months Ago

kc0tma wrote:
Calvi, I think you missed my point more than I missed yours. My $38 (now $19) means that I've got less to lose. Lets say that the DOW were to plummet a good 10,000 points or something like that and people start rushing to the banks to get all their money out, but the bank doesn't have enough cash to pass out. So the rich dentist down the street might be at a million dollar loss, whereas I am at a $19 loss. And for material loss, I own some camping gear and a jeep and a tv and a couch and a mattress. My motorcycle is financed, so that is the only thing that could possibly be repossessed by the bank. Really though, I don't have anything to worry about because I am well capable of paying more than the minimum monthly payment and I'm far ahead on those payments.


And as far as the government reading our minds, maybe it can happen and maybe it can't. The year 1984 has come and gone and for the most part all is well and people don't seem to be watching over their shoulders for the Thought Police. If the government wants to know what I'm thinking, they're in for a lesson in impolite vocabulary.

And another thing for calvi and anyone else who cares before I end this monologue...These last couple of weeks that I have been near penniless have been some of the best and most productive I've had in a while. I haven't been eating out, I have been driving around less, I haven't been buying magazines off the news stand, I haven't ordered stuff I don't need off the internet. It's been great! I challenge you to go a week or two and be extremely cheap and pinch every single penny and see how you can handle it, because I bet you'll have a bit of a different outlook on this whole mess they've gotten themselves into. (I say they instead of we because I figure it's their fault and I really have nothing to do with it.)



Well, well, at last some sense and cheers for replying KC. Your response now makes me aware of what you were actually trying to articulate, text and font speak are always a difficult medium to express sarcasmn and have it understood.

"And another thing for calvi and anyone else who cares before I end this monologue...These last couple of weeks that I have been near penniless have been some of the best and most productive I've had in a while. I haven't been eating out, I have been driving around less, I haven't been buying magazines off the news stand, I haven't ordered stuff I don't need off the internet. It's been great! I challenge you to go a week or two and be extremely cheap and pinch every single penny and see how you can handle it, because I bet you'll have a bit of a different outlook on this whole mess they've gotten themselves into. (I say they instead of we because I figure it's their fault and I really have nothing to do with it.)"

I agree completely again. I have really had to tighten the purse strings. I had zero income in August, $740 in September. I have a young family KC. We don't eat out, we have apple trees, almost bare now lol. I don't order anything that is not essential. My car has done 40 miles in last 6 weeks. I cut down trees that were dead and use them as fuel. I am buying a cave next week in a low class kinda hillside.

On a more serious note KC, more people will end up doing what we have to do.
  • grinch2171
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Post 3+ Months Ago

My wife was talking to a neighbor who comes from money and have substantial money in the bank. The neighbor was going on about how she is worried about the poor people and how will they survive. My wife gave the best response ever. My wife said and I quote, "I don't care about poor people." The neighbor looks at her with disgust and then my wife explains, poor people know how to live poor, they know how to go without to make ends meet. This financial crisis will not affect them as much as it does the guy with millions invested in the stock market or the family living in a house they can't afford and the people living a lifestyle they can't afford. Poor people don't have these problems and are not affected the same way.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

ahhh but lending to poor people caused this, or so we are told. Infact, it was lending to people who would or should not have been able to afford a mortgage to buy their homes. yet they got mortgages, they bought homes. You see, even poor people want to better themselves, get on the property ladder and improve their lifestyles.

I am as working class as they come. I bought my first house ten years ago, lost it as a business i had failed, the bank foreclosed.

I managed to get enough together to buy another house this year, deposit that is. I live here now. I am a very worried man.

My wife says to me, peter stop worrying about other people and I answer, how can I, they are poor just like us.

I like this black guys attitude, good on you bud

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=32a_1223410067

oh and I don't care if the PC correct mob come and hunt me down. I do not care if someone is black, brown, chocolatte, cerise, lemon, yellow, white, caucasian, oriental, asian, eastern, middle eastern, far eastern, russian, slovak, or any other ffing nationalistic, race orientated, colour orientaded factions want to put me down. you see I am me, just a person, just a guy with his family. Forget race and descriptions, we are all people no matter.

What matters is what will happens to us all. mark my words, race will not matter when we have to help each other.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

http://carleasingintheuk.rcpartnership.org/

just read then feed it out asap
  • calvi36
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Post 3+ Months Ago

how can I feed this? it is not for commercial gain? We need this out right away. Belive me, this is so important thet even Neo,would blush

at your mindset
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Post 3+ Months Ago

grinch2171 wrote:
My wife gave the best response ever. My wife said and I quote, "I don't care about poor people." .... poor people know how to live poor, they know how to go without to make ends meet.


I don't consider myself poor. A poor person or a poor family is one who lives in a shack built from scavenged junk, and who has to stand in line at missions and soup kitchens for food. I've got a solid roof over my head and my fridge has good food in it, so I'm doing alright.
  • grinch2171
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I wasn't calling you poor kc0tma.

As far as poor people being the problem with the current crisis we are in, I won't buy into it. Yes, a lot of people got loans that should never have gotten them but is that their fault or the banks fault? My fingers point at the bank and their greed. Of course people want to improve their lifestyle and will try to do what they can to do it. The banks should have been the ones to tell them no.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

It takes two to tango, so it is both the banks fault and the peoples fault. The banks did their part by lending money to any Tom Dick and Harry that wanted it, and the people are at fault for not saving for the things they want. It's ok to own that fancy shiny speed boat, but if you don't have the $50k to buy it then save for it instead of financing it.

//and I know you weren't calling me poor, it just seems like your neighbor lady might be a little snobby and stuck up.
  • calvi36
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Post 3+ Months Ago

So we go back to affordability?

Who should decide what we can afford, well us of course, but what if a financial institution mis-sells? This means, they know fine well I cannot afford the 50k boat or the 300k house, yet they lend anyway, knowing full well that they are taking no risk at all since they will sell the debt on to hedge funds and other banks, who HAVE NOT seen the valuation reports on the house or the boat!
  • ATNO/TW
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Post 3+ Months Ago

And so AIG goes and spends about a half million on a pleasure trip to a resort

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27086714/

Quote:
AIG sent its executives to the coastal St. Regis resort south of Los Angeles even as the company tapped into an $85 billion loan from the government that it needed to stave off bankruptcy. The resort tab included $23,380 worth of spa treatments for AIG employees, according to invoices the resort turned over to the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee.
  • calvi36
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Post 3+ Months Ago

ATNO has awakened, I wish the bloody rest would.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I haven't awakened. I've actually been reading most of the posts in this thread. i just have nothing really to contribute. Both this and the current political election in the US are both laughing jokes to me. They are both as ridiculous as it gets.
  • calvi36
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Aplogies for my ridiculous viewpoints then. We shall see what is actually ridiculous bro when it happens. watch what will happen in next 10-14 days.
  • ATNO/TW
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Well in particular I like this. Sorta sums up my feelings:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27083938/
"If the Onion Wrote for the Fool"

Quote:
U.S. government taking over Man U sponsorship
The federal government notified Manchester United that, effective with next week’s game, the AIG (NYSE: AIG) sponsorship name on their jerseys will be replaced with the letters "USA" and contain a likeness of Uncle Sam. In a related matter, all the Man U players have been granted citizenship, and the USA soccer team is now ranked No. 1 in the world. (This item compliments of Fool CFO Ollen Douglass.)
  • calvi36
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Post 3+ Months Ago

well I cant argue with it. most mancs should have it tatooed on their chests. I have just uploded this http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a3a_1223513441
  • kc0tma
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I agree with ATNO on the election being basically a stand up comedy, but this financial thing is something that is causing a lot more trouble than it should.
  • calvi36
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Post 3+ Months Ago

rejected it on liveleak, yet they allow clips of ied and shooting of americans http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a3a_1223513441
  • digitalMedia
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I don't think this is a joke. I do think it's frustrating, sometimes when the spectacle becomes the most important part of the narrative. But, I think it's all to be expected.

I think the only thing that is really over the top are certain segments of our population that have become too emotionally vested in being "right" and "winning" and thus proving the other guy "wrong".

I think Sarah Palin is the perfect example of this. In less than 6 weeks, tens of millions of people, maybe hundreds of millions, have made it deeply personal as to whether Sarah is GOOD or BAD.

...and don't tell me that's DA MEDIA's fault. That's just a BS strawman. I'm really sick of that hollow argument.

On the mortgage thing; Both the banker/broker and buyer are at fault. When I bought my house I was given a pitch about a variable interest rate loan. I chose the fixed rate for one simple and obvious reason, otherwise the payment might go up beyond my ability to pay it back.

I believe most of the bad mortgages were variable rate loans.
  • Gate2Shop
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Post 3+ Months Ago

With all the failing or claim to be failing banks, maybe those that could go to the SPA's should pitch in to help the others go.
  • grinch2171
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When I bought my house I was offered an ARM. I asked about it and when it was explained I asked if people actually sign up for that. It is the stupidest thing ever in my opinion. I also qualified for a mortgage I could never afford and was quite amazed. During my house hunting I looked at getting a house built. When I sat down with the agent and configured the house to my liking, which wasn't extravagant, I was told the monthly payment would equal one of my paychecks and she was ready to sign me up. I was floored. There was no way in hell I would spend one paycheck on a mortgage. Lucky for me I qualified as a first time home buyer and got a kick ass interest rate and found a very nice house I could easily afford.
  • kc0tma
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I spend almost an entire paycheck just on rent.
  • digitalMedia
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Post 3+ Months Ago

grinch2171 wrote:
When I bought my house I was offered an ARM. I asked about it and when it was explained I asked if people actually sign up for that. It is the stupidest thing ever in my opinion. I also qualified for a mortgage I could never afford and was quite amazed. During my house hunting I looked at getting a house built. When I sat down with the agent and configured the house to my liking, which wasn't extravagant, I was told the monthly payment would equal one of my paychecks and she was ready to sign me up. I was floored. There was no way in hell I would spend one paycheck on a mortgage. Lucky for me I qualified as a first time home buyer and got a kick ass interest rate and found a very nice house I could easily afford.


That's almost exactly my experience. One guy kept saying, "The payment might even go down!." I kept saying, "Yeah, but it might also go way up." At the time the ARM payment was a few dollars cheaper according to their calculations, the guy tried to make me feel like I was an idiot.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

kc0tma wrote:
I spend almost an entire paycheck just on rent.


KC, I don't know your fix and I wouldn't pretend to, but I spent most of my 20's as broke as anyone could be. I know a lot of my friends had similar experiences.

I'm not justifying you using an entire paycheck on rent. I'm just saying I was there once and it gets better, eventually.
  • Gate2Shop
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Post 3+ Months Ago

If you look at the way AIG handled it you wouldn't think they were having these kind of problems.
  • janekelly
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Post 3+ Months Ago

According to me it is the time of act not the time of worried.
  • LightningRider
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I think it is going to take a while for all these financial institutions to regain stability. Not to mention the stock market liking Obama also; seems like every time he speaks it plunges.

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