General topic replies

Hi,
Am a junior member and posted few topics.I saw my topics are viewed by more than 100 members but no one expressed their views on the topic( i mean reply). Am i expecting much or this is the usual thing followed in forum? atleast i expected the webmaster's or some moderators reply.I am disappointed.
Just I request you all the senior members to let me know your experience in the earlier stage.
Awaiting for reply.
Thanks and Regards,
Rajan

What was your question? Sometimes the questions aren't clear so no one answers. I skip posts when I can't understand them.

Hi Don,
Thank you for your response.Actually in my earlier thread i have asked to express other webmasters view on the trend of outsourcing services in the next five years.How the online market places will shape them to keep them in the competition?
Since you are the proficient i hope i may get your view too.

Looking forward for your reply.

Not everyone here is all that proficient rajan. tbh, there won't be many people here who could give a useful opinion on outsourcing trends, and of those, even fewer will be interested enough to provide you with details...

Another thought occurs to me - this is a forum for web developers, designers and the like. For the most part, you're the one taking the work away! Don't be too surprised if folks aren't over friendly.

Hi dyefade,
Nice to meet you.Actually whats your opinion on this?actually you have posted around 450 posts.Which thread or post attracted and interested to reply.
Which kind of topic if we post we can get more replies and get good contacts from other webmasters?
How about other webmasters in their approach and replies?

Do let me know.Awaiting for your reply.
Thanks and regards,
Rajan

I don't think anyone was intentionally trying to ignore your post, rajansslance. In fact if they were anything like me they probably really didn't understand exactly what you were asking. You referred to outsourcing, but you didn't specify - outsourcing what? You also have to understand that a large number of OZZU members are simply amateurs with an interest in design, or independent webmasters and developers who have little to no need or interest in outsourcing. Others are IT professionals, but I would venture to guess most work for companies and have no say in outsourcing. It may help if you clarified what you are talking about.

Another thing to understand is that just because you have a hundred views to a post doesn't mean all that much around here. Many views come from guests just browsing the forum, or people that find a post through a search engine. Although OZZU has thousands of members, OZZU has relatively few hundred members who post on a very regular basis. Most of them have specialized areas of interest such as programming, flash, digital art, photography, etc, and spend most of their time posting and reading in the appropriate forums.

I read your posts when you made them. I read most of the posts at OZZU. But I don't answer all of them by any means. There are simply too many. And truthfully I didn't really understand exactly what you were getting at. Even if I did, I may not have offered an opinion, because I really don't like outsourcing. In America most outsourcing occurs because companies want to reduce the expensive labor cost of hiring US citizens, and instead ship the jobs offshore where they can take advantage of cheaper labor rates, therebye taking jobs away from their employees.

But I doubt anyone was intentionally trying to ignore your posts. We are glad to have you at OZZU, by the way. We're happy you found us.

Relevant link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6288247.stm

In answer to your question, what threads am I likely to reply to:

- they must be in English, or at the least show that effort has been made. So much of the Web is written by what appear to be US schoolchildren, I can filter out about a quater of Ozzu before we start.
- They must interest me - the fact that I frequent a self described "webmaster" forum should be a hint to what I'm looking for when I come to Ozzu. I use other sites on the net, with other topics, but when I'm at Ozzu I'm not usually one for socialising (Re: US school kids, see above).
- I must have an opinion, or be able to contribute to a discussion with information that hasn't already been posted.
- The thread must be interesting enough that me answering it would be more entertaining that doing nothing - there are only so many broken SQL strings you can correct before it becomes boring, for example.

I can't really think of anything else right now. I've made only ~450 posts in two and a half years - that's not many at all.

As for outsourcing:

- It's done by those who want to do a job on the cheap,
- by those who don't understand the benefit of customer loyalty (or who have decided they can do without it)

To be honest, there is so much work available (disclaimer: I am UK-centric about work), I don't worry about outsourcing. For the most part, if a client is willing to outsource, they're probably not going to be great to work for anyway. I couldn't make a prediction about the next 5 years, beyond that it will increase - but the whole industry is (hopefully) heading for a second boom, so everything is going to increase!
Outsourcing is neither a worry nor a draw for me.

Now internal sub-contracting is another (more interesting) question... but that's for another thread.

Hi ATNO & Dyefade,
Now I understood exactly.Thank you very much for your kind reply. Since we three are different geography, just would like to share about this outsourcing happening in our appropriate region which I have collected this information very recently.
The report says, according to U.S. Census Bureau, by 2050 the most populous countries with highest ratios of working age population to non-working population will be mostly in Asia and sub-Saharan Africa.
These countries will have the largest base of employable young population. The developing and under developed countries are yet in a position to emerge as major global labor markets with some exceptions. Those who really needs a bridge in Business frameworks, legal systems, education and infrastructure to be an active part of services Globalization.
Lets compare the current global outsourcing industry and the global service delivery. Each developed and developing countries economic growth depends on each other. Developed countries economy must need the developing countries workforce. Whoever miss the chance either developed countries fail to tap the workforce or the developing countries fail to compete and acquire the outsourcing business will lag in the economic curve. It’s a win-win situation for all.
As ATNO said the jobs is U.S. are offshore to where they can get their job done at cheaper cost.Very happy to see your replies and to be an Ozzuvian.Understood that the thread should be posted at appropriate place as well in much interest topics, instead of my earlier generic topic.
Dyefade also started an interesting thread about internal contract.The trend seems quite new for me and if its in detail that will be better for me.Can you Dyefade?

Thank you and love to read and post many topics on ozzu.

With regards,
Rajan

Quote:
Developed countries economy must need the developing countries workforce. Whoever miss the chance either developed countries fail to tap the workforce or the developing countries fail to compete and acquire the outsourcing business will lag in the economic curve. It’s a win-win situation for all.
________________________________________

Developed countries do not need the work force of developing countries when there is a "reserve army" (unemployed) to use a Marxist term, in the developed country and it is not a win win situation for all. In fact, it's only win situation for the company exploiting the labor power of the developing country. Once capital growth goes beyond the national borders, the working class loses it's purchasing power since the employers are contracting from outside sources.

Yea thats true Don, I agree with you.But after Globalisation,things were changed very dramatically and visualizing the tremendous change on this.

After globalization? It is just starting. Apparently, you haven't studied economic and political structures, capitalism, marxism or socialism.

Don, I have not studied "economic and political structures, capitalism, marxism or socialism", so consider my post as curiosity to learn from you.

1st off, it seems to me the impact of "reserve army" you talked about is rather vague in this argument. rajan talks primarily about software and ICT outsourcing here. If developed countries already had a large enough pool of the "reserve army", that would significantly drive down the cost of utilizing them by companies(of developed countries) and therefore the trend of outsourcings to specialists of other countries would not reach the critical level of debate at all. A layman like me might think that an imbalance of demand and supply might be partly responsible for outsourcing trends.

2nd, I have also been thinking that in short term the sharing of capital growth across boundaries may cause some level of dearth in the employment opportunities of the developed countries(depends on the size of "reserve army") but it also keeps increasing the appreciation of the assets of the developing countries. And after a reasonable time one should hope that both parties' involved would reach an equal level. After all, in a market economy, sustainable and long term economic growth can only be achieved if financial resources are distributed efficiently. If developed countries do not achieve that efficiency globally, eventually they will exhaust all the benefits they are hogging from the developing countries which will suffocate the global economy at length. On the other hand, sharing the capital growth among developing countries should strengthen the global economy and thus ensure sustained capital growth of the developed countries also, which will increase the overall employment opportunities. A case of example and approach taken by EU. The optimal use of the resources in the European economy is allowed by the capital flow towards the best investment opportunities, independently of the countries in which these arise. This can only be delivered by a stable financial system that is integrated beyond the national borders.

3rd, why buying ICT services from developing countries be a fatal issue for developed countries if they can import other products(say garments and textiles) from developing countries without raising an eyebrow? And why blame a company for sharing its capital growth across border when it can gain both quality (from specialization) and profit (from labor cost) by importing the services from developing countries? If anything this helps them focus on their core activities, roll out better products for consumers and sustain and/or even provide better opportunities for their local employees. The spirit of globalization is that of necessities. The so called reserve army(if there is any) should compete with better quality or cut down their pricings to adopt into an economy that is slowly evolving beyond national borders.

Lastly, I would like to ask a simple question of principle to anyone who might be reading this. Is globalization good or bad? Should we try to make the world a better place or just my country? Why would the less skilled get all the opportunities who were just by chance privileged to be born in a developed country?

Okay, that's enough ranting for a day for me. Not that it matters either way. Demand-supply is what counts

I was recently talking to a family member about becoming a programmer. He is with a group that handles IT for many companies. And this is where it may relate to this post and get some Americans unnerved. He said why should they hire programmers from America for 30,000 + per year when they can out-source for literally hundreds a day for an office full of workers. He said "they don't get paid to think, just program, and they accept it." So even if it cost a few hundred a day, other countries have under cut American workers salaries by so much it isn't profitable for certain companies to hire Americans who live where the work is.
The difference is 12 workers American would cost 360,000 per year, to out-source cost for 12 workers 78,000.
Bear in mind he cant give me exact figures, but he said it was real close 4:1 ratio
Also 30,000 per year in America is low end salary

Quantumcloud: First let me say that I can see that you have to potential to be more than an easily diverted political and economic observer. The majority of the American population falls into that category. However, your views on investment opportunities, employment and growth are strictly from a capitalist standpoint, which is understandable since that comprises the American economy and that's basically all that's promoted in the media.

I, on the other hand, feel that the working class, however ignorant and brain dead that they may be, must be first instead of last, since they are the backbone of any economic system. When the growth goes beyond the national borders, the purchasing power of the working class is lost to the point where, in many cases, they can't buy the very products that they produce. That leads to underconsumption which in turn leads to a lower rate of profit, more unemployment and a shortage of investment opportunities.

Without going to far, let me bring that back to the original subject which discussed outsourcing in relation to computer jobs. As programming and other computer related jobs are outsourced, the scenario that I described becomes a reality and the loss of purchasing power for the working class also becomes a reality.

Unfortunately, the working class has no common thought process or goal to overcome the oppression that they face. They are not even aware of it.