How does PayPal work?

  • rjstephens
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Post 3+ Months Ago

but there are hundreds, if not thousands of stories out there of people having problems with paypal. I have yet to see ONE story of someone being ripped off by 2CO. And btw they are expanding quite quick too. Last year they did a total of $100million in sales. This year they have already done $76 million.
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  • Foxy
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ur forgetting the point, is for him to get donations by users for money... unless you can get a deal with a credit card company or something else then it seems your in a periciment(bah my spelling) seems paypal looks pretty good then, if your making any money, thats better then no money am I safe to say that correct? and if theyre messing up, maybe you filled in improper information causing then to have problems you also think?
  • tiramisu26
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Why don't you use ikobo.com ? I am using them and they are reliable and fast. Not to mention the fact that they have lower fees than paypal and larger coverage. I think for the coverage is 170 countries.
  • anton
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Post 3+ Months Ago

rtm223 wrote:
I'd like to see percentage figures for these horror stories - I've never come across anyone who actually had a problem with paypal, and it seems to me Just because a company is smaller and their faults are less well documented does not mean they are safer. There will always be a risk of problems using a company like this, especially when everything is automated.

I basically agree with everything you said, except for the part about people who have had problems with paypal. I think you should visit one of the links I've provided and see for yourself.
It's true that since they do a lot of transactions the possibility of something going wrong increases proportionally, but since they do so many of them you'd think they would develop enough experience to make things better. Maybe they just don't care all that much since they have plenty of customers and doesn't really matter to them if they lose one or two.
Just a thought...
  • discountdomains
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Paypal is well known and trusted which is cool.

I think they charge abourt 4.5% per transaction but considering how easy it is to integrate (Like no questions asked etc) its good.

If your looking for a more commerical outfit try "Worldpay"

best of luck.

Clare
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I think paypal are old in business and because of that, is well known. But I think also that this is the only principle that drives it's business forward. People have now many alternatives , much faster, cheaper and reliable like ikobo.com, moneybookers, epassporte. Each one of them, offers much more advantages than paypal.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

discountdomains wrote:
I think they charge abourt 4.5% per transaction but considering how easy it is to integrate (Like no questions asked etc) its good.

Wow, that's quite al lot compared to other companies. ikobo for example has only 2.99% per transaction fee, also without any questions asked as well as easy integration.
I'm not trying to say they are the best or anything, I'm only trying to point out the fact that there are better alternatives to paypal out there, some of them are actually better and worth a look.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Dragon wrote:
Ok I'm pretty much new into paypal aswell, so if someone wants to make a donation or something to your website or whatever through paypal, they actually have to have a paypal account right? Ir cant they just pay through credit cards?


They can just use their credit cards. If you click on the "Merchant" tab...or maybe it says "Merchant services" you will see a lot of cool stuff there...only thing is some people still think PayPal to be a little unprofessional. Though this stigma is slowly going away, it will still be a year or two before it is widely used outside of eBay. I used to use a company called "paymentech" for processing credit cards. They were OK, but you might find better...I did not really shop around. That might be better for your clientele who might not want to be bothered with learning about PayPal before they pay you.
  • anton
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Well that's the bad part, actually one of the bad parts, about paypal. The customer has to have an account, or sign-up for one when they want to make a purchase. This alone makes a lot of people dislike paypal. There are other companies you can use for cc processing, companies like: moneybookers, stormpay, 2checkout, ikobo, authorize.net and so on. Not to advertise or anything, I personally use ikobo as I have said.
  • tiramisu26
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Post 3+ Months Ago

discountdomains wrote:
Paypal is well known and trusted which is cool.


I found out that PayPal is so bad, it has a website to prove that: http://www.paypalsucks.com . There, you will be amazed of the number of problems people have with this service. I will stay away of PayPal.
  • rtm223
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Post 3+ Months Ago

tiramisu26, check the previous page for the whole paypalsucks thing, its been discussed. Any site like that is 100% biassed and <b>no</b> biassed information or propoganda is worth a damn in my book.

Especially seeing as the owner of the site does not seem to admit who they are or the motives they have for founding the site. Who's to say it's not a propaganda campaign run by one of the other companies who offer similar services, in an attempt to topple or get customers from the big boys?

also from the previous page: Number of problems is far from suprising considering the number of transactions made on paypal.

I'm sure there are a million sites out there telling you how bad microsoft products are, and they aren't great, but they are a hell of a lot better than people make out.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

What you say is in part true. Although I don't think those people would go through all of the trouble of making the site and posting just because they don't like the name paypal or something like that. Some of those stories MUST be genuine, and that alone is quite worrying. That alone is reason enough for me to look elsewhere, besides I couldn't even use paypal in my country since they don't cover it.
  • rjstephens
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rtm233, answer me this
By using microsoft products, how much money am I risking?

Now, by using paypal, how much money am I risking?

compare the two.

By using microsoft, I'm not taking a big risk. By using paypal, I would be taking a huge risk.

I'm simply not prepared to take the risk of having potentially thousands of dollars ripped out of my pocket. And that's why I want to stay as far away from paypal as I can.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

You go rjstephens. It's true what you say. There are quite serious risks involved with using paypal. I'm glad there are others who agree with me. Paypal is :twisted:
  • musik
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Before September 11 occured PayPal was indeed a rather wonderful way to launder money from here to there, and also was rather questionable in its operation. Information gathered on users was pretty much a joke. After September 11, the government cracked down on PayPal (and other similar companies) with a line something similar to... "Do you want to responsible for shifting funds for terriost acts and other illegal activities?" ..So paypal had to pull its head in and smarten up its act. Nowadays their ID process is rather involved, of course nothing is fool proof, but if your looking for an easy way to recieve money from customers and other people, paypal is the way. If your a business and want another way then yes, worldpay is another great option.
PayPal used to have a lot of problems but in the past 3 years has evolved to be one of the top credit transaction facilities for the internet in the world.
  • dyefade
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Jus' my 2c, Paypal is now owned wholly by eBay, which is good, as eBay have long proven to be a trustworthy company.

They also now have a European wing, an entirely separate entity. This involved them setting up a UK company, which involved going through UK financial regulations... so I figure if they got the all clear on that, they can be trusted.

I've been using them for years (not sure how long), never had ANY trouble with them.
  • rjstephens
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Quote:
eBay have long proven to be a trustworthy company.


Which rock have you been living under? ebay is still full of those "Get all the thousand dollar goods you want for free" scams.

EBay has made very little effort to deal with these, because they receive thousands of dollars in fees from them every year.

eBay and Paypal are just as bad as each other, neither of them care about the customer, and both of them are interested only in their bottom line.

By the way, have you ever written in to ebay support? A few days later, you get a canned reply that is copied and pasted straight out of ebay's online help and is completely meaningless.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I'm an ebay addict!!
  • dyefade
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Which rock have you been living under? ebay is still full of those "Get all the thousand dollar goods you want for free" scams.
EBay has made very little effort to deal with these, because they receive thousands of dollars in fees from them every year.

That's not eBay itself though is it... eBay have nothing to do with the scams, and so what if they don't try to stop them? They're making money from other peoples stupidity, unethical? Maybe, but it doesn't bother me.
Quote:
neither of them care about the customer

I don't want/need a lot of care, so long as nothing goes wrong. They're building myeBay 2 at the moment, and supposedly taking in a lot of user feedback, that at least shows they listen.
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By the way, have you ever written in to ebay support?

No, I haven't. But equally, I've never needed to, because their service has always been dead on.
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dyefade wrote:
Quote:
That's not eBay itself though is it... eBay have nothing to do with the scams, and so what if they don't try to stop them? They're making money from other peoples stupidity, unethical? Maybe, but it doesn't bother me.

It may not bother you, but it sure as hell bothers a lot of people. Don't get me wrong, I haven't been scammed by anyone, I think I'm too careful for that to happen, but what about the people who did get scammed? You may not care about them, but it's just downright evil to just sit on their laps (ebay and paypal I mean) and watch their customers getting ripped off. Calling all of those who got scammed stupid seems like a very, how did you put it "unethical" thing to say the least. If a person isn't that good with computers and the Internet, that doesn't necessarily make them stupid? Now does it?
Quote:
I don't want/need a lot of care, so long as nothing goes wrong. They're building myeBay 2 at the moment, and supposedly taking in a lot of user feedback, that at least shows they listen.
By the way, have you ever written in to ebay support?
No, I haven't. But equally, I've never needed to, because their service has always been dead on.

Maybe not yet, but what happens when you do and run into a brick wall? They may be listening, but it comes through one ear, and out through the other. Having a server that processes e-mails and responds automatically doesn't exactly count as listening in my book. And anyway, supposedly doesn't mean they actually do take in the feedback.
  • dyefade
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Quote:
Calling all of those who got scammed stupid seems like a very, how did you put it "unethical" thing to say the least. If a person isn't that good with computers and the Internet, that doesn't necessarily make them stupid? Now does it?

OK, good point. I don't wanna get into a mass argument about the relative merits and ethics of online auctions, I am well aware that eBay are not saintly, and have their faults (such as the huge amount of scams being operated, as cited by rjstephens, which are an annoyance at the best of times)
However, eBay's only job is to provide sellers with an oppertunity to set up auctions and allow buyers to bid, and, now, with Paypal, to provide a suitable payment service. That is all they do, it's all they promise to do, and with that in mind, they achieve their goal 100% (ish, lets not get into server uptime discussions etc ffs).
There are scams in operation, and eBay appears to turn a blind eye to them. It tries (for it's own sake, obviously) to stay <a href="http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/questions/prohibited-items.html">within the law</a>, which is fair enough. Hmmm, not sure of the point of this paragraph.

Anyway, on topic. my quote, to defend Paypal, was that "eBay have long proven to be a trustworthy company".
The fact that in dozens of countries they serve thousands of people millions of sales everyday, for the most part without a hitch, suggests to me that they have earned the title trustworthy.

Don't confuse eBay the company with the people who use it. eBay is NOT responsible for them, and, as stated, doesn't do much to keep them in check. Granted, I have never had to use the technical support, maybe if ever I have a problem I will take your view more, but as it is, a minority of user-related problems and shoddy (apparently! I, as I've said, wouldn't know) support services do not compare to years of successful business and millions of happy users.

Phew..!
  • rtm223
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Ok, i was only comparing MS and paypal because they are the big boys in their respective fields and people like to knock down the big boys.

I have read the paypal sucks things - about 5 pages worth (I like to know what I'm arguing against in any debate). It also occurs to me that if you give people somewhere to complain, then they will. If I opened a 2checkoutsucks website, after a little while the situation would probably be similar, with reduced numbers of reports in correlation with the differences in numbers of transactions

RJstevens, if paypal has the ability to take thousands of dollars "out of your pocket" then you are <i>probably</i> doing one of the following things:

<ol><li>storing lots of your money in your paypal account. One bloke on paypalsucks was moaning because he had $3000 dollars taken from his paypal account. Paypal security consists of a single password. They don't enforce any kind of strong security on the password (it can be all numeric if you like - <b>very</b> unsecure). Banks have much better security, my internet banking account, for example, has multiple layers. That is where I keep my thousands of pounds of savings. Paypal is <b>not</b> a bank account and <b>should not</b> be used as such.</li>
<li>alternatively, maybe you have let them store your card or bank details on their server so that when you purchase something it is a simple as just clicking. Then if someone hijacks your paypal account (see low security note above) they can "just click" and take funds from your bank account. You just don't do that sort of thing. Enter your card details every time, never take up their offer of one-click payments.</li>
</ol>
There is always the possibility the paypal might go through previous transaction records and find your old details and run these again, but it is <b>extremely</b> unlikely that they would. There are also no cases of this listed on either of the anti-paypal sites. This is also a risk you take <b>every single time</b> you use your card.

Many of the problems on paypal sucks are because of accounts getting hijacked and easily abused because of one of the two reasons listed above. It's not paypal being unscrupulous that people are complaining about, it's the users that have been plain dumb, and now want paypal to clean up the mess caused by their own idiocy. There are exceptions but this is a definate trend:
Quote:
my account was frozen ( weith around $3,000 bucks in it!)
Meet Captain Sensible, who likes to keep $3000 in his paypal acount.

Quote:
Since my credit card was listed as my second source of funds, the jerk-offs charged my credit card. I then had to turn the charge into the dispute department with my cc company.
Yes this person had <b>both</b> bank and credit card details available for their friendly neihbourhood hijacker to use.

Quote:
Checked my online account and found out the day before PayPal had chaged me $1,950.00 becuase someone got access to my account.
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an automatic bank transfer will occur to bring your paypal balance to the member specified amount.
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When I would pay for an item, it would automatically charge my bank account
all three, bank details handed over willy-nilly again :roll:

Quote:
so I now had $7,500 in Paypal
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Then when I got to my peak amount of money being over $2000
Captain Sensible strikes again. Stupid amounts of money left in unsecure places.

Basically, if paypal or a hijacker has access to your funds in a way that you can lose thousands of pounds easily then you are being ****ing stupid. If you are <b>that</b> careless with your money you practically deserve to get screwwed IMHO, and I have not a jot of sympathy for you.

If you use paypal sensibly then there is no more chance of suffering from fraud than if you went and used your card in a "normal" shop or on amazon or where-ever.

dyefade wrote:
That's not eBay itself though is it... eBay have nothing to do with the scams,
Exactly, the same is true of paypal. It's not paypal causing the problems, it's other users causing the problems. Strangely enough there are also other users on 2checkout or any of the other merchant account things. No really, I know it's a difficult concept, but there are.

rjstevens wrote:
I'm simply not prepared to take the risk of having potentially thousands of dollars ripped out of my pocket. And that's why I want to stay as far away from paypal as I can.
Like I said before, the scams are down to the users, <b>not</b> the company. It is the nature of the beast. I just don't see how you can say you are not willing to take the risk with one provider but perfectly happy with taking the same risk with another company. If you are sensible about the way you use it then the risk is minimal. But the risk <i>is always</i> there with any service provider. It is naive (amongst other things) to think that swapping to a different service will give you immunity from this kind of fraud.
Quote:
I sent a payment of $200 to someone for a product, which never arrived.
are you honestly telling me that you believe swapping to 2checkout would make this impossible to happen to you? It's <b>not</b> just paypal that suffers from the abusers.

Do you know what really gets to me about this thread:
rjstevens wrote:
Which rock have you been living under?
rjstevens wrote:
yeah. personaly I wouldn't touch paypal with a ten foot clown pole because of some of the stuff I read at paypalsucks.
anton wrote:
but they [paypal] also have a lot of issues and a lot of people don't like them
You are there critisizing other people's opinions, even though you don't actually have an opinion <b>of your own</b>. You are making out that we are all dumb, for looking at the situation logically and trying to analyze <b>facts</b>, rather than just regurgitating the opinions we read on a <b>propaganda</b> site.

Maybe thats the reason you can't see the risk with 2checkout, because you never actually stopped to think for yourself. You just read and heard negative info about paypal and came to the conclusion "paypal = dangerous". Whereas the logical, sensible conclusion is "<b>all</b> paypalesque services = dangerous".

Think thats a little harsh? You show me one place on this thread where your opinions of paypal were based around sound logic and reasoning. I looked, it's all "I heard this" and "I read that".


My stance on this, as it has been all along, is that the risk is there no matter the <b>name</b> of the company. If you can't see the parrallel then maybe there is no hope for you. I wish you luck doing business with the safe and altruistic 2checkout (or any of the other "better" companies). I'm glad you have found a service that the scammers can't touch because it is surrounded by a halo of pure angelic light. A light that allows the richeous folk to enter unhindered, but burns, with white hot flame, those whose hearts are impure. Or whatever crazy magic it is that you think will protect you from fraud.

BTW, as for the people getting scammed not being idiots, many of them aren't. But if you give out your card and bank details willy-nilly, I put that in the same league as trusting someone who claims to be the "wallet inspector". There is a difference between being unsure with technology (I <b>do</b> feel for those people who get scammed because of this), and being plain careless and having no common sense.

My final word is to quote this back at you for the third time:
rjstevens wrote:
Just because you haven't had a problem with them [ie, 2checkout], doesn't mean you won't
You said it yourself, just because you have not been scammed does not mean you won't be. If you won't even listen to yourself, I think it's pointless me trying to convince you anymore.
  • rjstephens
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
Think thats a little harsh? You show me one place on this thread where your opinions of paypal were based around sound logic and reasoning. I looked, it's all "I heard this" and "I read that".

point taken, I won't say anything else about paypal


Quote:
That's not eBay itself though is it... eBay have nothing to do with the scams, and so what if they don't try to stop them? They're making money from other peoples stupidity, unethical? Maybe, but it doesn't bother me.

these scams wouldn't be too hard for ebay to block. 90% of them are using the same ad text. (When you buy the scam, you get the rights to sell it)


Quote:
Strangely enough there are also other users on 2checkout or any of the other merchant account things

2checkout's system does not require my customers to register, all they do is go to a page on 2checkout's site, and enter their details, and hit submit. I can not then send that money to someone else until it is in my bank account. 2Checkout is a "one-way" service.
  • conorific
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Another thing about paypalsucks.com et cetera is that the users on the forums and the webmaster seem to be making a big advertisement thing about it. As pointed out before, look how many mistakes these people made with PayPal, like keeping thousands of dollars in their accounts. Another thing about the forums and the front page is the overabundance of exclamation points and spelling errors. More than anything, that screams, "AMATEUR!" Why should we trust them?

The whole bloody thing reminds me of the issue debated in the book The Da Vinci Code. Supposedly, the Catholic Church sought to discredit the name of Mary Magdalene because her alleged union with Jesus tarnished the Church's idea of a divine being [this idea stemmed from their own sin.] This is the same thing. The idiots at paypalsucks are trying to discredit PayPal because of their own stupid errors.
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It's important to consider that there are over 35 third party credit card processors like PayPal. Some have even lower rates depending on your monthly sales volume and average ticket (item sales amount).

Recently PayPal has announced rate changes effective 8/6/04 that make it harder for merchants to qualify for their 2.2% discount rate. Previously you could qualify for the 2.2% rate with a monthly sales volume of only $1,000. For new accounts, now you need a monthly sales volume of $10,000 to qualify for this rate.

You can see a list of over 35 third party processors and compare their rates based on your monthly sales volume with the Maculator.

Various 3rd party processors also have chargeback policies that are more favorable to merchants. Some consider all transactions to be final and allow no chargebacks!

We all need to look at the competition in order to put pressure on PayPal and other providers to keep their prices in check and add value to their services.
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What type of volume are you looking at in the future ? With any major volume, you may want to consider your own merchant account. With that, you would be given many more options. There are several free to low cost merchant account setup options online, feel free to ask if you need assistance.
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Ok, there's been a lot of talking about paypal here. I just wanted to set the records straight. I've used paypal in the past didn't do any stupid mistake or get ripped off. I just needed larger coverage. Now I'm using ikobo and for now it seems like a good option. Sorry if I brought this thread back, but I read through it once more and thought I'd clarify this. Thanks! 8)
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I don't know much about iKobo, is it any good?
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In my opinion stormpay will be a good option they PAY world-wide (PAypal does not) also they did not need any card information frm you. They offer sending an invoice to an email address which a user can use to pay money,They also offer FREE Advertising in their directory (see bottom of this page) http://www.stormpay.com/?2002392 THIS IS THE BEST SERVICE in my opinion.
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super12 wrote:
I don't know much about iKobo, is it any good?

Hmm, what can I say, for me it's been working fine, no complaints. I saw other people complain. I don't know what to say, from my point of view it's good. Is there anything specific you'd like to know?
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