How does PayPal work?

  • conorific
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Post 3+ Months Ago

This must sound so stupid, but...

Okay. I'm doing an art gallery site, and they want people to be able to order prints of some pieces. We figured that using PayPal would work...but how do I use it?

I want customers to be able to pay using PayPal with a credit card and not have to set up an account and all that crap. I read through what I think is all the documentation, and I'm still confused. If someone could point me in the right direction, that'd be great...
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Post 3+ Months Ago

It's a perfect solution. Paypal benefits those who don't have credit cards but can do withdrawels from checking accounts. However, they can still pay with a credit card straight up withought a Paypal account. Working example:
http://atnopro.com/payment/payment.html

Click the payment button. Click where it says If you have never paid through PayPal click here.
You'll then see the option on bottom left "If you don't have a PayPal account
and want to pay with a credit card:"

Works like a charm, however they do charge you a small percentage for credit card payments.

Any contributions welcome! *wink (j/k)
  • conorific
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Okay, that makes more sense. Is there anything sp3shul I would have to set up to enable that? Credit card numbers or checking accounts and the like?
  • ATNO/TW
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Checking - they send a "small" deposit to the account - when you get your bank statements you need to confirm the "amounts" in the email they send to complete their verification process.
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Added note - if I recall you HAVE to become verified in order to withdraw more than (I think it's $500) from the account in any given month or something like that -- I'd have to re-read the TOS again.
  • conorific
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Post 3+ Months Ago

*light dawns on Maggie's poor, sad brain*

Okay. So would I have to pay PayPal so that people could pay me through them, or is it free?
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I think the check and transfer tansactions are free - but I'm sure they deduct a percentage from pure credit card transactions - it's convenient and worth the small amount thoough. Their instructions are pretty clear. You should be able to get it done pretty easily - I did.
  • conorific
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Mkeh. I ask because I know nothing.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Good luck. It's a pretty painless process - just follow instructions - you'll have it up in no time. They even provide you the HTML code for the form -- you don't even have to write any of it! *lol
  • conorific
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Mkay. Thanks!
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I use Paypal alot for ebay what you need to do is make an account then put money in the account through a checking account or a credit card then if you transfer money they charge 2% giving money to anothere person is free but to give money to another person you need to know there email adress they made there paypal account on

Hope this helps
  • conorific
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Uhm...thanks?
  • Dragon
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Ok I'm pretty much new into paypal aswell, so if someone wants to make a donation or something to your website or whatever through paypal, they actually have to have a paypal account right? Ir cant they just pay through credit cards?
  • conorific
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Uh...I forget.
  • ATNO/TW
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Either one Dragon - see my example above.
  • Dragon
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I was checking it out, but I'm still kinda confused. If someone would want to make a donation or whatever, how would they do it through paypal?
Sorry but really didn't get a whole lot of info from the sample...I'm kinda slow today. :roll:
I went to http://www.paypal.com and I found this maybe it can aswer some of the questions, it was usefull for me...

What is PayPal?

With more than 40 million member accounts in over 38 countries worldwide, PayPal is the world's largets online payment service. PayPal makes sending money as easy as sending email. Any PayPal member can instantly and securely send money to anyone in the U.S. with an email address. PayPal can also be used on a web-enabled cell phone. In the future, PayPal will be available to use on web-enabled pagers and other handheld devices.


I received a payment through PayPal. Now what?

After you sign up for a PayPal account, the payment you received will automatically be reflected in your account balance. There are many ways to use the funds in your PayPal balance:
Use it to send a payment to someone else
Use PayPal's virtual debit card to shop anywhere online
Sign up for the PayPal Money Market Reserve Fund to earn a return on your PayPal balance
Withdraw the money to your bank account
Request a PayPal ATM/Debit Card, and spend the money anywhere the MasterCard or Cirrus logos are displayed, or withdraw the money from an ATM


How do I receive money?

When someone sends you money using PayPal, you'll receive a "You've Got Cash!" email notification. The funds will be instantly credited to your account balance. You can request money from someone by clicking the Request Money tab and filling out the form. Show me You can even request money from several people at the same time by separating the email addresses with a comma.


Although I checked out a couple of stuff, I still don't know how does people pay you if they don't have paypal but you do.... :(
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Post 3+ Months Ago

If they don't have paypal, they can either sign up for an account at paypal, or they can simply charge it to their credit card like any other store checkout.
  • Dragon
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Aight that sounds good.
  • Dragon
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I have another question....
Does a paypall account (personal account) counts as a credit card or something?
And is it required to be over 18?
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Dragon wrote:
Does a paypall account (personal account) counts as a credit card or something?
And is it required to be over 18?


The answer to the first question is no, it does not. The answer to the second question is yes you have to be over 18:

Quote:
This Agreement was last modified on February 13, 2004.


Eligibility. In order to use the Service, you must register for a Personal, Premier, or Business account. Users may only hold one Personal account and either one Premier or one Business account. Our Services are only available to individuals or businesses that can form legally binding contracts under applicable law. Without limiting the foregoing, our Service is not available to minors (under 18), persons who are suspended from our Service, or to persons who present an unacceptable level of credit risk. In order to receive credit card funded payments or use the Service to conduct business or in conjunction with a business, you must upgrade to or register for a Premier or Business account.



The rest here should answer most of the rest of everyone's questions:

http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cm ... ua-outside

Always read the user agreements and/or terms of service. They almost always clear up the answers that are hard to understand from the marketing side.
  • Dragon
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Post 3+ Months Ago

aight thanks a lot!
  • anton
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conorific wrote:
This must sound so stupid, but...

Okay. I'm doing an art gallery site, and they want people to be able to order prints of some pieces. We figured that using PayPal would work...but how do I use it?

I want customers to be able to pay using PayPal with a credit card and not have to set up an account and all that crap. I read through what I think is all the documentation, and I'm still confused. If someone could point me in the right direction, that'd be great...


Are u sure you want to use Paypal? I mean sure, they're well-known and all that, but they also have a lot of issues and a lot of people don't like them. There are a lot of bad reviews regarding them at http://www.paypalsucks.com as well as at paypalwarning I think.
My opinion is that u should look into some alternatives as well. They might be less-known or newer to the market, but some of these are a good competition to paypal. Some examples are: moneybookers, 2checkout, stormpay, ikobo, epassporte, e-gold, authorize.net and so on. I'm not sure whether they all have merchant accounts but some definitely have; ikobo for example as well as moneybookers. The latter one seems to have higher set-up fees and smaller coverage than ikobo I think.
You should check some of these out for yourself.
  • rjstephens
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Post 3+ Months Ago

yeah. personaly I wouldn't touch paypal with a ten foot clown pole because of some of the stuff I read at paypalsucks.

Avoid stormpay as well, that is run by a scammer who runs a whole lot of scams (Ever heard of those laptop matrixes? Well this guy ran about 4 - they're trying to shut him down right now)

I persoan,ly use and recomend 2checkout. They allow you to accept credit cards without the person buying from you signing up.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

saw paypalsucks link.
I didnt know that paypal was that lame.
..More feedbacks on 2checkout ?
  • rtm223
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I have no idea what the truth is, but consider this:

Paypal have the rules to cover their backs, the other companies probably have similar.

Paypal are bigger = more transactions = more times it goes wrong. Thousands of transactions every day, stuff will go wrong

Paypal are big and people like to knock the sucessful companies (microsoft anyone?)

I'd like to see percentage figures for these horror stories - I've never come across anyone who actually had a problem with paypal, and it seems to me

Just because a company is smaller and their faults are less well documented does not mean they are safer. There will always be a risk of problems using a company like this, especially when everything is automated.

Just something to think about
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I've used PayPal for close to 2 years and never had a problem. Personally, I find it convenient and the service is quick. I always get my money transfers in the time period they specify. I'm comfortable with them.
  • rjstephens
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I don't know anyone personally but I know someone who does. He knows people that have had thousands of dollars ripped out of their pockets by paypal.

Just because you haven't had a problem with them, doesn't mean you won't. Personally I'd rather not take the risk.

And don't think 2CO does less sales, they are on heaps of sites. $70 million plus in sales so far this year.

Whats more, a google search for people ripped off by 2checkout reveals nothing (i went through the first five pages) while finding someone ripped off by paypal is easy
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Personally i find paypal has been professional and good so far.
no problems with it too.

Quote:
He knows people that have had thousands of dollars ripped out of their pockets by paypal.


maybe more information on that??
  • rjstephens
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I'll speak to him tomorrow. Well actually today. (it just past midnight here)
  • rtm223
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rjstephens wrote:
Just because you haven't had a problem with them, doesn't mean you won't.


Surely that was the point I was trying to make.... I think :lol:

75 mil in a half year, compared to paypals 437 mil last year. Taking into account paypals consistantly exponential growth rate since 2000, I would predict total sales on paypal circa $605m for 2004. Thats like 4 times the amount that 2checkout stands to make. This = 4x the amount of stuff going wrong. Plus they are a higher profile company IMHO

If paypal have access to thousands of pounds of someone's money, I would sugest that that person is careless with their money, and paypal is not entirely to blame.

I know I have never had a problem with paypal, and I also know that I would never use them for anything over £100.


http://www.nexusportal.net/showthread/t-3701.html
theres gonna be problems with every service. Noones perfect
  • rjstephens
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but there are hundreds, if not thousands of stories out there of people having problems with paypal. I have yet to see ONE story of someone being ripped off by 2CO. And btw they are expanding quite quick too. Last year they did a total of $100million in sales. This year they have already done $76 million.
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ur forgetting the point, is for him to get donations by users for money... unless you can get a deal with a credit card company or something else then it seems your in a periciment(bah my spelling) seems paypal looks pretty good then, if your making any money, thats better then no money am I safe to say that correct? and if theyre messing up, maybe you filled in improper information causing then to have problems you also think?
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Why don't you use ikobo.com ? I am using them and they are reliable and fast. Not to mention the fact that they have lower fees than paypal and larger coverage. I think for the coverage is 170 countries.
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rtm223 wrote:
I'd like to see percentage figures for these horror stories - I've never come across anyone who actually had a problem with paypal, and it seems to me Just because a company is smaller and their faults are less well documented does not mean they are safer. There will always be a risk of problems using a company like this, especially when everything is automated.

I basically agree with everything you said, except for the part about people who have had problems with paypal. I think you should visit one of the links I've provided and see for yourself.
It's true that since they do a lot of transactions the possibility of something going wrong increases proportionally, but since they do so many of them you'd think they would develop enough experience to make things better. Maybe they just don't care all that much since they have plenty of customers and doesn't really matter to them if they lose one or two.
Just a thought...
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Paypal is well known and trusted which is cool.

I think they charge abourt 4.5% per transaction but considering how easy it is to integrate (Like no questions asked etc) its good.

If your looking for a more commerical outfit try "Worldpay"

best of luck.

Clare
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I think paypal are old in business and because of that, is well known. But I think also that this is the only principle that drives it's business forward. People have now many alternatives , much faster, cheaper and reliable like ikobo.com, moneybookers, epassporte. Each one of them, offers much more advantages than paypal.
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discountdomains wrote:
I think they charge abourt 4.5% per transaction but considering how easy it is to integrate (Like no questions asked etc) its good.

Wow, that's quite al lot compared to other companies. ikobo for example has only 2.99% per transaction fee, also without any questions asked as well as easy integration.
I'm not trying to say they are the best or anything, I'm only trying to point out the fact that there are better alternatives to paypal out there, some of them are actually better and worth a look.
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Dragon wrote:
Ok I'm pretty much new into paypal aswell, so if someone wants to make a donation or something to your website or whatever through paypal, they actually have to have a paypal account right? Ir cant they just pay through credit cards?


They can just use their credit cards. If you click on the "Merchant" tab...or maybe it says "Merchant services" you will see a lot of cool stuff there...only thing is some people still think PayPal to be a little unprofessional. Though this stigma is slowly going away, it will still be a year or two before it is widely used outside of eBay. I used to use a company called "paymentech" for processing credit cards. They were OK, but you might find better...I did not really shop around. That might be better for your clientele who might not want to be bothered with learning about PayPal before they pay you.
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Well that's the bad part, actually one of the bad parts, about paypal. The customer has to have an account, or sign-up for one when they want to make a purchase. This alone makes a lot of people dislike paypal. There are other companies you can use for cc processing, companies like: moneybookers, stormpay, 2checkout, ikobo, authorize.net and so on. Not to advertise or anything, I personally use ikobo as I have said.
  • tiramisu26
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discountdomains wrote:
Paypal is well known and trusted which is cool.


I found out that PayPal is so bad, it has a website to prove that: http://www.paypalsucks.com . There, you will be amazed of the number of problems people have with this service. I will stay away of PayPal.
  • rtm223
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tiramisu26, check the previous page for the whole paypalsucks thing, its been discussed. Any site like that is 100% biassed and <b>no</b> biassed information or propoganda is worth a damn in my book.

Especially seeing as the owner of the site does not seem to admit who they are or the motives they have for founding the site. Who's to say it's not a propaganda campaign run by one of the other companies who offer similar services, in an attempt to topple or get customers from the big boys?

also from the previous page: Number of problems is far from suprising considering the number of transactions made on paypal.

I'm sure there are a million sites out there telling you how bad microsoft products are, and they aren't great, but they are a hell of a lot better than people make out.
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What you say is in part true. Although I don't think those people would go through all of the trouble of making the site and posting just because they don't like the name paypal or something like that. Some of those stories MUST be genuine, and that alone is quite worrying. That alone is reason enough for me to look elsewhere, besides I couldn't even use paypal in my country since they don't cover it.
  • rjstephens
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rtm233, answer me this
By using microsoft products, how much money am I risking?

Now, by using paypal, how much money am I risking?

compare the two.

By using microsoft, I'm not taking a big risk. By using paypal, I would be taking a huge risk.

I'm simply not prepared to take the risk of having potentially thousands of dollars ripped out of my pocket. And that's why I want to stay as far away from paypal as I can.
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You go rjstephens. It's true what you say. There are quite serious risks involved with using paypal. I'm glad there are others who agree with me. Paypal is :twisted:
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Before September 11 occured PayPal was indeed a rather wonderful way to launder money from here to there, and also was rather questionable in its operation. Information gathered on users was pretty much a joke. After September 11, the government cracked down on PayPal (and other similar companies) with a line something similar to... "Do you want to responsible for shifting funds for terriost acts and other illegal activities?" ..So paypal had to pull its head in and smarten up its act. Nowadays their ID process is rather involved, of course nothing is fool proof, but if your looking for an easy way to recieve money from customers and other people, paypal is the way. If your a business and want another way then yes, worldpay is another great option.
PayPal used to have a lot of problems but in the past 3 years has evolved to be one of the top credit transaction facilities for the internet in the world.
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Jus' my 2c, Paypal is now owned wholly by eBay, which is good, as eBay have long proven to be a trustworthy company.

They also now have a European wing, an entirely separate entity. This involved them setting up a UK company, which involved going through UK financial regulations... so I figure if they got the all clear on that, they can be trusted.

I've been using them for years (not sure how long), never had ANY trouble with them.
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Quote:
eBay have long proven to be a trustworthy company.


Which rock have you been living under? ebay is still full of those "Get all the thousand dollar goods you want for free" scams.

EBay has made very little effort to deal with these, because they receive thousands of dollars in fees from them every year.

eBay and Paypal are just as bad as each other, neither of them care about the customer, and both of them are interested only in their bottom line.

By the way, have you ever written in to ebay support? A few days later, you get a canned reply that is copied and pasted straight out of ebay's online help and is completely meaningless.
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I'm an ebay addict!!
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Quote:
Which rock have you been living under? ebay is still full of those "Get all the thousand dollar goods you want for free" scams.
EBay has made very little effort to deal with these, because they receive thousands of dollars in fees from them every year.

That's not eBay itself though is it... eBay have nothing to do with the scams, and so what if they don't try to stop them? They're making money from other peoples stupidity, unethical? Maybe, but it doesn't bother me.
Quote:
neither of them care about the customer

I don't want/need a lot of care, so long as nothing goes wrong. They're building myeBay 2 at the moment, and supposedly taking in a lot of user feedback, that at least shows they listen.
Quote:
By the way, have you ever written in to ebay support?

No, I haven't. But equally, I've never needed to, because their service has always been dead on.
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dyefade wrote:
Quote:
That's not eBay itself though is it... eBay have nothing to do with the scams, and so what if they don't try to stop them? They're making money from other peoples stupidity, unethical? Maybe, but it doesn't bother me.

It may not bother you, but it sure as hell bothers a lot of people. Don't get me wrong, I haven't been scammed by anyone, I think I'm too careful for that to happen, but what about the people who did get scammed? You may not care about them, but it's just downright evil to just sit on their laps (ebay and paypal I mean) and watch their customers getting ripped off. Calling all of those who got scammed stupid seems like a very, how did you put it "unethical" thing to say the least. If a person isn't that good with computers and the Internet, that doesn't necessarily make them stupid? Now does it?
Quote:
I don't want/need a lot of care, so long as nothing goes wrong. They're building myeBay 2 at the moment, and supposedly taking in a lot of user feedback, that at least shows they listen.
By the way, have you ever written in to ebay support?
No, I haven't. But equally, I've never needed to, because their service has always been dead on.

Maybe not yet, but what happens when you do and run into a brick wall? They may be listening, but it comes through one ear, and out through the other. Having a server that processes e-mails and responds automatically doesn't exactly count as listening in my book. And anyway, supposedly doesn't mean they actually do take in the feedback.
  • dyefade
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Quote:
Calling all of those who got scammed stupid seems like a very, how did you put it "unethical" thing to say the least. If a person isn't that good with computers and the Internet, that doesn't necessarily make them stupid? Now does it?

OK, good point. I don't wanna get into a mass argument about the relative merits and ethics of online auctions, I am well aware that eBay are not saintly, and have their faults (such as the huge amount of scams being operated, as cited by rjstephens, which are an annoyance at the best of times)
However, eBay's only job is to provide sellers with an oppertunity to set up auctions and allow buyers to bid, and, now, with Paypal, to provide a suitable payment service. That is all they do, it's all they promise to do, and with that in mind, they achieve their goal 100% (ish, lets not get into server uptime discussions etc ffs).
There are scams in operation, and eBay appears to turn a blind eye to them. It tries (for it's own sake, obviously) to stay <a href="http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/questions/prohibited-items.html">within the law</a>, which is fair enough. Hmmm, not sure of the point of this paragraph.

Anyway, on topic. my quote, to defend Paypal, was that "eBay have long proven to be a trustworthy company".
The fact that in dozens of countries they serve thousands of people millions of sales everyday, for the most part without a hitch, suggests to me that they have earned the title trustworthy.

Don't confuse eBay the company with the people who use it. eBay is NOT responsible for them, and, as stated, doesn't do much to keep them in check. Granted, I have never had to use the technical support, maybe if ever I have a problem I will take your view more, but as it is, a minority of user-related problems and shoddy (apparently! I, as I've said, wouldn't know) support services do not compare to years of successful business and millions of happy users.

Phew..!
  • rtm223
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Ok, i was only comparing MS and paypal because they are the big boys in their respective fields and people like to knock down the big boys.

I have read the paypal sucks things - about 5 pages worth (I like to know what I'm arguing against in any debate). It also occurs to me that if you give people somewhere to complain, then they will. If I opened a 2checkoutsucks website, after a little while the situation would probably be similar, with reduced numbers of reports in correlation with the differences in numbers of transactions

RJstevens, if paypal has the ability to take thousands of dollars "out of your pocket" then you are <i>probably</i> doing one of the following things:

<ol><li>storing lots of your money in your paypal account. One bloke on paypalsucks was moaning because he had $3000 dollars taken from his paypal account. Paypal security consists of a single password. They don't enforce any kind of strong security on the password (it can be all numeric if you like - <b>very</b> unsecure). Banks have much better security, my internet banking account, for example, has multiple layers. That is where I keep my thousands of pounds of savings. Paypal is <b>not</b> a bank account and <b>should not</b> be used as such.</li>
<li>alternatively, maybe you have let them store your card or bank details on their server so that when you purchase something it is a simple as just clicking. Then if someone hijacks your paypal account (see low security note above) they can "just click" and take funds from your bank account. You just don't do that sort of thing. Enter your card details every time, never take up their offer of one-click payments.</li>
</ol>
There is always the possibility the paypal might go through previous transaction records and find your old details and run these again, but it is <b>extremely</b> unlikely that they would. There are also no cases of this listed on either of the anti-paypal sites. This is also a risk you take <b>every single time</b> you use your card.

Many of the problems on paypal sucks are because of accounts getting hijacked and easily abused because of one of the two reasons listed above. It's not paypal being unscrupulous that people are complaining about, it's the users that have been plain dumb, and now want paypal to clean up the mess caused by their own idiocy. There are exceptions but this is a definate trend:
Quote:
my account was frozen ( weith around $3,000 bucks in it!)
Meet Captain Sensible, who likes to keep $3000 in his paypal acount.

Quote:
Since my credit card was listed as my second source of funds, the jerk-offs charged my credit card. I then had to turn the charge into the dispute department with my cc company.
Yes this person had <b>both</b> bank and credit card details available for their friendly neihbourhood hijacker to use.

Quote:
Checked my online account and found out the day before PayPal had chaged me $1,950.00 becuase someone got access to my account.
Quote:
an automatic bank transfer will occur to bring your paypal balance to the member specified amount.
Quote:
When I would pay for an item, it would automatically charge my bank account
all three, bank details handed over willy-nilly again :roll:

Quote:
so I now had $7,500 in Paypal
Quote:
Then when I got to my peak amount of money being over $2000
Captain Sensible strikes again. Stupid amounts of money left in unsecure places.

Basically, if paypal or a hijacker has access to your funds in a way that you can lose thousands of pounds easily then you are being ****ing stupid. If you are <b>that</b> careless with your money you practically deserve to get screwwed IMHO, and I have not a jot of sympathy for you.

If you use paypal sensibly then there is no more chance of suffering from fraud than if you went and used your card in a "normal" shop or on amazon or where-ever.

dyefade wrote:
That's not eBay itself though is it... eBay have nothing to do with the scams,
Exactly, the same is true of paypal. It's not paypal causing the problems, it's other users causing the problems. Strangely enough there are also other users on 2checkout or any of the other merchant account things. No really, I know it's a difficult concept, but there are.

rjstevens wrote:
I'm simply not prepared to take the risk of having potentially thousands of dollars ripped out of my pocket. And that's why I want to stay as far away from paypal as I can.
Like I said before, the scams are down to the users, <b>not</b> the company. It is the nature of the beast. I just don't see how you can say you are not willing to take the risk with one provider but perfectly happy with taking the same risk with another company. If you are sensible about the way you use it then the risk is minimal. But the risk <i>is always</i> there with any service provider. It is naive (amongst other things) to think that swapping to a different service will give you immunity from this kind of fraud.
Quote:
I sent a payment of $200 to someone for a product, which never arrived.
are you honestly telling me that you believe swapping to 2checkout would make this impossible to happen to you? It's <b>not</b> just paypal that suffers from the abusers.

Do you know what really gets to me about this thread:
rjstevens wrote:
Which rock have you been living under?
rjstevens wrote:
yeah. personaly I wouldn't touch paypal with a ten foot clown pole because of some of the stuff I read at paypalsucks.
anton wrote:
but they [paypal] also have a lot of issues and a lot of people don't like them
You are there critisizing other people's opinions, even though you don't actually have an opinion <b>of your own</b>. You are making out that we are all dumb, for looking at the situation logically and trying to analyze <b>facts</b>, rather than just regurgitating the opinions we read on a <b>propaganda</b> site.

Maybe thats the reason you can't see the risk with 2checkout, because you never actually stopped to think for yourself. You just read and heard negative info about paypal and came to the conclusion "paypal = dangerous". Whereas the logical, sensible conclusion is "<b>all</b> paypalesque services = dangerous".

Think thats a little harsh? You show me one place on this thread where your opinions of paypal were based around sound logic and reasoning. I looked, it's all "I heard this" and "I read that".


My stance on this, as it has been all along, is that the risk is there no matter the <b>name</b> of the company. If you can't see the parrallel then maybe there is no hope for you. I wish you luck doing business with the safe and altruistic 2checkout (or any of the other "better" companies). I'm glad you have found a service that the scammers can't touch because it is surrounded by a halo of pure angelic light. A light that allows the richeous folk to enter unhindered, but burns, with white hot flame, those whose hearts are impure. Or whatever crazy magic it is that you think will protect you from fraud.

BTW, as for the people getting scammed not being idiots, many of them aren't. But if you give out your card and bank details willy-nilly, I put that in the same league as trusting someone who claims to be the "wallet inspector". There is a difference between being unsure with technology (I <b>do</b> feel for those people who get scammed because of this), and being plain careless and having no common sense.

My final word is to quote this back at you for the third time:
rjstevens wrote:
Just because you haven't had a problem with them [ie, 2checkout], doesn't mean you won't
You said it yourself, just because you have not been scammed does not mean you won't be. If you won't even listen to yourself, I think it's pointless me trying to convince you anymore.
  • rjstephens
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
Think thats a little harsh? You show me one place on this thread where your opinions of paypal were based around sound logic and reasoning. I looked, it's all "I heard this" and "I read that".

point taken, I won't say anything else about paypal


Quote:
That's not eBay itself though is it... eBay have nothing to do with the scams, and so what if they don't try to stop them? They're making money from other peoples stupidity, unethical? Maybe, but it doesn't bother me.

these scams wouldn't be too hard for ebay to block. 90% of them are using the same ad text. (When you buy the scam, you get the rights to sell it)


Quote:
Strangely enough there are also other users on 2checkout or any of the other merchant account things

2checkout's system does not require my customers to register, all they do is go to a page on 2checkout's site, and enter their details, and hit submit. I can not then send that money to someone else until it is in my bank account. 2Checkout is a "one-way" service.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Another thing about paypalsucks.com et cetera is that the users on the forums and the webmaster seem to be making a big advertisement thing about it. As pointed out before, look how many mistakes these people made with PayPal, like keeping thousands of dollars in their accounts. Another thing about the forums and the front page is the overabundance of exclamation points and spelling errors. More than anything, that screams, "AMATEUR!" Why should we trust them?

The whole bloody thing reminds me of the issue debated in the book The Da Vinci Code. Supposedly, the Catholic Church sought to discredit the name of Mary Magdalene because her alleged union with Jesus tarnished the Church's idea of a divine being [this idea stemmed from their own sin.] This is the same thing. The idiots at paypalsucks are trying to discredit PayPal because of their own stupid errors.
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It's important to consider that there are over 35 third party credit card processors like PayPal. Some have even lower rates depending on your monthly sales volume and average ticket (item sales amount).

Recently PayPal has announced rate changes effective 8/6/04 that make it harder for merchants to qualify for their 2.2% discount rate. Previously you could qualify for the 2.2% rate with a monthly sales volume of only $1,000. For new accounts, now you need a monthly sales volume of $10,000 to qualify for this rate.

You can see a list of over 35 third party processors and compare their rates based on your monthly sales volume with the Maculator.

Various 3rd party processors also have chargeback policies that are more favorable to merchants. Some consider all transactions to be final and allow no chargebacks!

We all need to look at the competition in order to put pressure on PayPal and other providers to keep their prices in check and add value to their services.
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What type of volume are you looking at in the future ? With any major volume, you may want to consider your own merchant account. With that, you would be given many more options. There are several free to low cost merchant account setup options online, feel free to ask if you need assistance.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Ok, there's been a lot of talking about paypal here. I just wanted to set the records straight. I've used paypal in the past didn't do any stupid mistake or get ripped off. I just needed larger coverage. Now I'm using ikobo and for now it seems like a good option. Sorry if I brought this thread back, but I read through it once more and thought I'd clarify this. Thanks! 8)
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I don't know much about iKobo, is it any good?
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In my opinion stormpay will be a good option they PAY world-wide (PAypal does not) also they did not need any card information frm you. They offer sending an invoice to an email address which a user can use to pay money,They also offer FREE Advertising in their directory (see bottom of this page) http://www.stormpay.com/?2002392 THIS IS THE BEST SERVICE in my opinion.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

super12 wrote:
I don't know much about iKobo, is it any good?

Hmm, what can I say, for me it's been working fine, no complaints. I saw other people complain. I don't know what to say, from my point of view it's good. Is there anything specific you'd like to know?
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for what genrally people complaint about this service.
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deepesh wrote:
for what genrally people complaint about this service.

Well, most complaints were in the past related to slow customer support and accounts being frozen. While the part about support is generally true, although it go fixed now and until today it worked fine, the part about account freezing I don't agree on. It's for security and fraud prevention, and in my case it has only happened after creating my account. I understood that and I was fine with it. Some fail to do that and thus complain. Anything else?
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Quoted from a recent filing with the US Securities and Exchange Commission http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/ ... 7e10vq.htm:

======================================
Our business may be harmed by fraudulent activities on our websites and disputes between users of our services.

PayPal faces significant risks of loss due to fraud and disputes between senders and recipients, including:


• merchant fraud and other disputes over the quality of goods and services;

• unauthorized use of credit card and bank account information and identity theft;

• the need to provide effective customer support to process disputes between senders and recipients;

• potential breaches of system security;

• potential employee fraud; and

• use of PayPal’s system by customers to make or accept payment for illegal or improper purposes.


For the year ended December 31, 2003 and six months ended June 30, 2004, PayPal’s provision for transaction losses totaled $36.4 million and $22.4 million, respectively, representing 0.30% and 0.26%, respectively, of PayPal’s total payment volume in those periods. Failure to deal effectively with fraudulent transactions and customer disputes would increase PayPal’s loss rate and harm its business.

PayPal’s highly automated and liquid payment service makes PayPal an attractive target for fraud. In configuring its service, PayPal faces an inherent trade-off between customer convenience and security. Identity thieves and those committing fraud using stolen credit card or bank account numbers can potentially steal large amounts of money from businesses such as PayPal’s. We believe that several of PayPal’s current and former competitors in the electronic payments business have gone out of business or significantly restricted their businesses largely due to losses from this type of fraud. We expect that technically knowledgeable criminals will continue to attempt to circumvent PayPal’s anti-fraud systems. In addition, PayPal’s service could be subject to employee fraud or other internal security breaches, and PayPal would be required to reimburse customers for any funds stolen as a result of such breaches.

PayPal incurs substantial losses from merchant fraud, including claims from customers that merchants have not performed or that their goods or services do not match the merchant’s description. PayPal also incurs losses from claims that the customer did not authorize the purchase, from erroneous transmissions and from customers who have closed bank accounts or have insufficient funds in them to satisfy payments. In addition to the direct costs of such losses, if they are related to credit card transactions and become excessive they could result in PayPal losing the right to accept credit cards for payment. If PayPal were unable to accept credit cards, the velocity of trade on eBay could decrease, in which case our business would further suffer. PayPal has been assessed substantial fines for excess chargebacks in the past, and excessive chargebacks may arise in the future. PayPal has taken measures to detect and reduce the risk of fraud, but these measures may not be effective. If these measures do not succeed, our business will suffer.

==================================================

eBay and PayPal are obligated to shareholders to keep costs down and profits up. After reading the entire report from which this excerpt was taken, I began to wonder whether PayPal's inside access to eBay's market is monopolistic in effect. With the huge eBay market in it's pocket, I question if PayPal really needs to worry about all the other non-corporate merchants and home-business entrepreneurs? :?:
  • Benat
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Alot of people bagging out PayPal here.

I find it brillant. I import goods from Canada, and at times have paid hundreds of $ through them and never had a problem.

The only thing I dont like about paypal is the fact that when my seller gets charged like $15 USD, for accepting my transaction, I have to pay it.. Which sucks. But I wouldnt use anyone else, unless it was paymate http://www.paymate.com.au Which Iam pretty sure is the Aussie paypal company.

I also like the fact that although Iam paying by credit card, my details are never revealed to the seller, and I feel safe doing that. There is no way I'd feel safe doing a transaction that required me to give out my CC details.
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I knew already the part with paypal frauds. The thing is that even if I could join paypal I would not do it because it's not cheap compared with other payment services.

I work for several webdesign companies from different parts of the world and the problem of beeing paid quickly and securely was a big problem. I read a lot of stuff about online payment on the internet and also a lot of forums have been studied. The only viable choice for me was and still is ikobo. I don't want to post about their features so that people would think that I advertise. If someone is interested to find out more only then I will post about them.
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I've never had any hassles myself with Paypal and I use it for my business when dealing with international customers - when i need the money it always takes no more than 3 days to get it.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Some have had problems with paypal, while others say it's great. The truth is somewhere in between but still. A lot of bad stuff related to them out there, enough to make me stay away from them. I'm cool with what I'm using now so until that's gonna change I'm keeping away from paypal.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Looks like a lot of complaints can be found against PayPal, iKobo and other popular processors. To review the complaints, search with the keywords "complaints" and (processor name) in your favorite search engine. You will probably find quite a few complaints, as I have, for PayPal, iKobo and others.

I have identified and profiled over 40 third party processors in the Maculator website at http://www.mgoldmine.com. Depending on your type of business and monthly volume you may find several alternatives that could provide what you need for a reasonable price.

As far as PayPal and iKobo, I use them both, and so far, have not had any problems with either one.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

There will always be complaints. Nothing is perfect and if it was it's human nature to complain and criticize. Nothing we can do about that. Conclusions should be drawn after using each service and seeing both benefits and limitations. I for one have used paypal and a while ago I've switched to ikobo. For now at least I don't have any complaints, who knows what will come...
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Does the maculator says also the coverage of each one of the merchant services? Because this is a very important thing. I must say that at first, ikobo cought my attention with it's 170 countries coverage. Back then I thought :"Wow lots of clients!". :) And it's true I tell you.
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In answer to your question about the Maculator and merchant accounts, the Maculator profiles over a dozen representative merchant accounts, in addition to all the 3rd party processors we have been able to identify (currently 43).

The profiles about merchant accounts include more details about fees than can normally be seen on most merchant account websites. We hope this kind of fees disclosures will someday become a standard by all merchant account providers.

Many merchant account providers distinguish themselves not by lower fees but by better services and good merchant relations. The more information we can share regarding fees, the more we can go beyond the fees and try to evaluate the quality of services and possibly unique products and add-ons, such as free websites for merchants or free gateway services.

On the other hand, there are also complaint topics on many forums that identify merchant account providers who have caused problems for some merchants and also some customers.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I signed up for ikobo and told one of my customer to pay me using it, but he replied thatit is a nightmare to pay using ikobo according to him ikobo asks information which his card does not provide, he paid easily using stormpay.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Useful site indeed, one could learn a lot about payment processors from there. I just looked at ikobo again and I noticed they have a pretty good referral program. Maybe I should give it a try sometime. :)
Again, my congratulations on the site! It's good to se someone provide unbiased information about these types of services.
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anton wrote:
Useful site indeed, one could learn a lot about payment processors from there. I just looked at ikobo again and I noticed they have a pretty good referral program. Maybe I should give it a try sometime. :)
Again, my congratulations on the site! It's good to se someone provide unbiased information about these types of services.


I'm glad you could benefit by the information provided. Researching this information is very time-consuming! In my opinion, the WWW is the ideal platform for disseminating information important to consumers at no cost to the consumers. Remember when we had to pay for much of the information that is now free?

We are constantly searching for more information about 3rd party processors and upgrades, downgrades, complaints, comments, etc. All your comments are appreciated.
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deepesh wrote:
I signed up for ikobo and told one of my customer to pay me using it, but he replied thatit is a nightmare to pay using ikobo according to him ikobo asks information which his card does not provide, he paid easily using stormpay.

Hmm, that is strange. I for one have used it to pay some people and haven't experienced any problems and mostly received payments. There may have been one or two complains, but only on minor issues. That's all the problems I've encountered. My opinion is that people tend to complain too much and expect everything to come for granted. Maybe if they paid more attention to instructions and requirements (that goes as a general rule as well) there would be a lot less complaints. Just what I think...
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People are in a very big hurry and most of them don’t even read the instructions and just skip them in order to buy the products they want. After that if they do something wrong (which happens in most cases) they go to a forum and complain. I rarely buy things from the internet but I have to say that when I bought a product with my credit card I read the instructions (which were very simple in ikobo's case) and everything went well. Very strange indeed...
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Don’t know exactly what the reasons are, but one thing is for sure. Users, as a whole (present company excluded of course ;) ) are making mistakes by the dozen, either by not paying attention to the stuff all over their screen or by just not caring. This is where most complaints are originated. I'm sure some of the complaints are genuine, with people who actually had a hard time with something (not referring necessarily to payment processors here).
Bottom line, read carefully (including fine print) learn English, if you're going to complain, at least do it so that everyone can understand you and things will be much better. I must stress the fact that I'm not referring to anyone here, because you all seem to be smart people, who wouldn't commit such mistakes. I'm only referring to those complainers out there.
Hell, I did what I just said above and haven't had problems so far. In my case I'm referring to ikobo, had problems with paypal though, but I won't get into that... Who knows, maybe it was my fault after all. ;)
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Post 3+ Months Ago

The Maculator http://www.mgoldmine.com website has recently received a few complaints about iKobo as well as PayPal.

Reviewing other complaint forums, it seems that many of these complaints are eventually resolved by customer service support.

iKobo is becoming more popular lately because of its support for multiple currencies, multiple merchant countries, and multiple languages. It's prices are also at the PayPal level, or even lower considering that iKobo accepts high-risk accounts that are rejected by PayPal.

As iKobo becomes more popular, it may be subject to growing pains and more visibility. I believe it's good that complaints can be publicly discussed on these forums, because that helps to put pressure on iKobo and PayPal and the 40-something others to maintain quality control.

If you search for "iKobo complaints" or "PayPal complaints" or "2Checkout complaints", you will find a lot of reading material. If you read the discussions carefully, you might learn something. If you just look at the headlines, you're probably just wasting your time. To me, it's a matter of taking 20 minutes to actually learn something as opposed to 5 minutes to be mislead.
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Yes, I think you're right about ikobo. I've also noticed that they seem to be growing in popularity lately. There have been a couple of modules released to integrate ikobo into OSCommerce, as well as more and more people becoming interested in them. With this success also come problems, like their website going down a while ago (is working ok now).
You're right about reading carefully through an entire article/post/whatever, the titles tend to be too flashy, like "ikobo sucks" or "paypal fraud" and so on. Once you get to read them you realize that not all of them are as bad as they seem and more importantly, not all of them are the system's fault (usually it's something user-related).
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Post 3+ Months Ago

That's what I was trying to say. I agree with both of you. People have to :shock: their eyes more often. User related problems are the common problems in this industry. Anyway, I just found out that ikobo resolved their MasterCard problems so I think this is a moment of joy for all the ikobo merchants. :)
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Really? They've finally sorted out their MasterCard problems? It was about time too. Lately we're seeing improvements being done with ikobo's services. This is, indeed, very encouraging for us already ikobo users, and especially for our businesses. Anyway, I'm going to check it out myself (the MC thing) to make sure. Thanks for the info anyway.
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I will talk with an operator on their LiveChat system and ask about MC. I will keep you posted. What I said on my last post was based on what I saw on many forums but I will make sure this is the reality ...
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You do that and tell us what you can find out. Also, there's supposed to be a module to integrate ikobo into OSCommerce? Is this true? Where can I find it? Forgive me if I'm asking too many questions, but I've been "out of the loop" lately and, as you can see, I'm not up-to-date with the recent developments. Thanks in advance.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

There are no problems anymore with MC. I spoke with the people from customer support and I also saw this information on several ikobo discussion forums. Now, to answer your other questions. For information about OSC or the ikobo payment module you can go to http://forums.oscommerce.com/index.php?act=ST&f=20&t=111522&st=. Also, among other improvements that have been done lately with the ikobo services, there is a very nice help page that could answer your future question. You can find it at http://ikobo.custhelp.com.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Wow, someone's still watching this. Great!
Thanks for your answers, figured out the part about MasterCard by myself. It does work! :)
Thanks for that link, I'll give it try as soon as I get the chance. I'll also take a look at their new help page. Let's see what these improvements are all about. ;)
  • tiramisu26
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  • tiramisu26
  • Posts: 19

Post 3+ Months Ago

I am always interested in ikobo reviews because, as a client, I want to stay informed so this is the reason that I watch this topic. And of course I am very happy when I get the chance to help somebody.
  • anton
  • Novice
  • Novice
  • anton
  • Posts: 29
  • Loc: Romania

Post 3+ Months Ago

I see what you mean. Always keeping up-to-date, huh? :)
I'm also like you and I want to hear as much as possible about them, to make sure I've made the right decision. So far I seem to have made just that, let's just hope things will only change for the better.
  • tiramisu26
  • Novice
  • Novice
  • tiramisu26
  • Posts: 19

Post 3+ Months Ago

Of course I am keeping up-to-date. What would you expect? I care about my money and what ikobo does with them. It's like a bank but much more flexible and faster. Wouldn't you care about your bank?
  • anton
  • Novice
  • Novice
  • anton
  • Posts: 29
  • Loc: Romania

Post 3+ Months Ago

If it were MY (get it ;) ) I would sure care a lot for it.
Joking aside; sure I care about the bank I have my money invested in and of curse I care about ikobo. I'd like to know any news and updates regarding any of them. Lately the news from ikobo seems to be good, so I suppose this only leaves my bank to worry about. :shock:

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