Kazaa's users sharing illegal music

  • Bigwebmaster
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Check this out, people sharing illegal music on Kazaa may not be so safe.

"A federal judge on Tuesday ordered Verizon Communications to disclose the identity of an alleged peer-to-peer pirate in a legal decision that could make it easier for the music industry to crack down on file-swapping networks."

"In a 37-page decision, U.S. District Judge John Bates said the wording of the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act requires Verizon to give the Recording Industry Association of America the name of a Kazaa subscriber who allegedly was sharing more than 600 music recordings. Bates said 'the court disagrees with Verizon's strained reading of the act, which disregards entirely the clear definitional language.'"

http://news.com.com/2100-1023-981449.html?tag=fd_top
  • Jimmie
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I didnt read the "full story", bu ti would think it would be easy to get around that, by disabling file sharing, or moving files from the "shared" folder to another....
  • Bigwebmaster
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Yeah well if everyone does that what good would Kazaa be then
  • assneck
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Post 3+ Months Ago

someone will always find a way arond this *plum* i bet. and kazaa is starting to piss me off. even kazaalite is having popups and that is annoying.

assneck
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Post 3+ Months Ago

no kazaa lite doesnt have popups man.. you might have another program installed causing the pop-ups.. try running adaware then reinstall.. kazaalite..

on a side note... there are over 3 million people at any given time on kazaa, so how is it they are going to attack the individuals? one at a time? hold the ISP responsible? it isnt the ISP's responsibility to sensor the internet or incur costs and expenses to fullfill the needs of the entertainment and movie business.. they better go back to the drawing board cuz they are just grasping at straws now.. cuz they know that P2P is a run away train that can NEVER be stopped...
theres my 2¢
  • Bigwebmaster
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Well as you can see in the ruling above the ISP had to disclose who that user was, and I am pretty positive they are going to press charges against that individual. But I agree that would be alot of people to go after. But really the only way to attact P2P is to go after the people themselves who distribute the illegal music and software.
  • Borrow -A- Geek
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Post 3+ Months Ago

well all i can say is good luck tracking and attack all of us.. the best they may do is effectively scare some people in to not sharing their files.. which is probably their big plan anyway... judges notoriously are soft people that are blatantly being made an example out of by a large corporation.. so i guess we will see if anything really happens to him
  • Jimmie
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Ive found Kazaa to be useless and rather slow to actually download what I want. Nonetheless, IRC seems to find me more, faster and in the instance its music, better quality. *peach* Kazaa, IRC is the *plum*!
  • UniquelyYoursPC
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Post 3+ Months Ago

ok i have a hacked kazza light
you dont put any info about your self, no pop-up's, all kinds of other *plum*
kazza is the best download softwere. there are manny more people in kazza then mric or any kind of *plum* like that. in mric you have no idea what you are geting. at lest kazza has fillters to help you. the search more is killer. it finds all of what you want..... if you want the best kazza (the one i have) download it here http://www.cowkiller.com/pro/kazaa_lite ... dition.zip
  • WindLvr
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I always had better luck with winmx. I never had a problem finding what I was looking for. I also downloaded less bogus files than I did with Kazaa.

I always have plenty to trade, so I wouldn't have to wait in line to download things. I would just offer someone a trade and usually they start your download right away!
  • PluTunium
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Im not much of a computer literate person but i just lost what i was going to say and now i am what. Ok kazaa lite is goooooooood
  • The Shrew
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Post 3+ Months Ago

They are just trying to prosecute taht person to scare people and it didn't work on me. Kazaa-lite is very cool, all of the spyware and adware was removed. There's a new version that I saw on Tech TV but I can't find kazaa-lite online anymore, there's something very suspicious at their old website. Sounds like a trap program.
  • NonbornAdversary
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I have heard a lot about the bust on Kazaa, but are people safe that use other P2P programs like WinMx for example?
  • UNFLUX
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I removed your new thread on the same topic. Please do not crosspost,
or make unnecessary new threads. This one will do fine for the question
you ask. Thanks. :)
  • musik
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Post 3+ Months Ago

kazaa is ok but there are a lot of dud files on there, that can get annoying especially when your downloading on a56k modem ehehe no popups tho.
  • Heart
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Kinda disturbing though.. I type something in and I get search results of Kiddy Porn.. Kind of sick actually.. Anyways, best rip off device ever made (Kazaa).
  • musik
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Post 3+ Months Ago

eww ive never had that happen tho (thank heavens!)
  • ModernDestroyer
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I'm affriad to ask what you were looking up.
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lol, it's not what you think.. Just random words bring up some weird stuff.. Stuff gets mixed in the wrong places and such. Like when you download a movie and it is a completely different movie.. For example I downloaded 2 Fast 2 Furious and got Disney's Holes.. Yeahhhh, that was close..
  • ModernDestroyer
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Post 3+ Months Ago

that's pretty far off the mark, it might be time to go to a different website and search for previews :D
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Post 3+ Months Ago

eh, I am too scared to download music now... I really don't share anymore because you never know who is watching.. Never really figured out how they find the people who have illegal MP3s... I mean it is not like they can go door to door saying bring out your computers..
  • ModernDestroyer
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Post 3+ Months Ago

even you should know nothing is safe on the internet. just look at your signature, you got my public address, but not the NATed address. My isp name, version of IE and that I'm using windows. ISP's track users to ip's all they have to do is watch a site see what address is getting all the downloads and go to the ISP and ask who is using that IP address and bingo. I install high speed wireless internet for a living, I have a master list of my subscribers that corelates a name to ip address. I can site and do a netstat of my mail server and see if people are coming in or out. If they are getting authenticated or rejected by the server. Even not plugging a computer into the internet doesn't make that computer completely safe. So have a good night :D
  • Heart
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Yeah, but Kazaa or who ever has the records of who gets on it and their IP addresses.. Kazaa would have to be hacked in order to get the records or Kazaa just hands them out. What I am saying is that it still doesn't make alot of sense to me. I figure as far as they could go is see who gets on. I don't know maybe I am just not looking at it from the right angle or something. I don't know alot about it so I am probably wrong. Also, they can't watch everyone unless they have something that keeps track of the bigger downloaders from kazaa or where ever. basically, me not sharing isn't to completely prevent me from getting caught and I know that it wont.. I am just keeping the down low.. Trying to not stand out as much as possible..
  • ModernDestroyer
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Post 3+ Months Ago

That's good for the time being, but eventually they will work their way down from the big fishes to the minnows. I won't worry to much about it unless you have downloaded or shared 500 or more songs. But I'm not a saint either, but I don't like kazaa so I never downloaded from them. I have my own stuff to worry about. ;)
  • Nucleo
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Post 3+ Months Ago

now, i use kazaa lite, i only use it for files. i never use it for music because it always messes up, i use winmx for music becuase they have alot of sources and no need for ques ;)
http://www.winmx.com
  • b_heyer
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Heart wrote:
Yeah, but Kazaa or who ever has the records of who gets on it and their IP addresses.. Kazaa would have to be hacked in order to get the records or Kazaa just hands them out. What I am saying is that it still doesn't make alot of sense to me. I figure as far as they could go is see who gets on. I don't know maybe I am just not looking at it from the right angle or something. I don't know alot about it so I am probably wrong. Also, they can't watch everyone unless they have something that keeps track of the bigger downloaders from kazaa or where ever. basically, me not sharing isn't to completely prevent me from getting caught and I know that it wont.. I am just keeping the down low.. Trying to not stand out as much as possible..


Kazaa is nothing more then a vessel to attach one user to another. It doesn't log anything important. An agent simply has to look over ISP (Internet Service Provider) logs to see who is downloading 100 2-10 MEG files, get their ip, trace it to their account with the ISP, get their name, address, credit card, whatever else was submitted when you registered with the ISP and then track you down.
  • musik
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Post 3+ Months Ago

there coming to take me away, hah hah hee hee!
  • b_heyer
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Post 3+ Months Ago

to the funny farm!

In their neat white coats.......
  • musik
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Post 3+ Months Ago

ooo here they come ! byeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
  • ModernDestroyer
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Post 3+ Months Ago

:shock: :lol:
  • dr nick
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I kind of agree with an earlier post saying that Kazaa is meant for the 'poorer' people. Downloading files is usually a question of time, and the quality of mp3's is also somewhat comprised (can anyone else tell the difference between CD quality and mp3 128bit quality?). I also find myself looking less for music online, and I can imagine in a few years or so (well, I'm hoping for lots of cash, obviously), that I'd rather go out and buy a CD.

Be cool to have a poll with the options:

If all music was free, how would you rather get it?
1) download using Kazaa, etc.
2) go to a CD store and pick whatever you want
  • musik
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Well if it were free who wouldnt want it on a proper CD.
But the case is it isnt free - the music problem is a double edged sword, people download it instead of buy it - prices go up so more people are forced to download it because of the expensive price.

It wont be long before they find a way to infect mp3's and those who download them will be very very sorry.

If I were an artist I would be rather pissy for people to download it, because I dont get my cut for it. Yeah its great to say its all about the music and it should be free and rar rar rar, but the reality of it is free music doesnt put food on my families table, nor does it pay for the time, effort and resources that go into making the music in the first place.

Just my opinions :wink:
  • ModernDestroyer
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Good points musik :)
  • the_real_tisse
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Post 3+ Months Ago

musik wrote:
Well if it were free who wouldnt want it on a proper CD.
But the case is it isnt free - the music problem is a double edged sword, people download it instead of buy it - prices go up so more people are forced to download it because of the expensive price.

It wont be long before they find a way to infect mp3's and those who download them will be very very sorry.

If I were an artist I would be rather pissy for people to download it, because I dont get my cut for it. Yeah its great to say its all about the music and it should be free and rar rar rar, but the reality of it is free music doesnt put food on my families table, nor does it pay for the time, effort and resources that go into making the music in the first place.

Just my opinions :wink:


I have to say, the first intelligent remarks on all this.

I am a musician and in a band that has a record out and will be recording a second one start of 2004. Kazaa (or any other P2P for that matter) is ripping and stealing nothing more, nothing less. It is plain and simply put: illegal.

Someone wrote in his/her reply, what is wrong with sharing files? Well, the problem is that you are illegally distributing that what is owned by someone else. The best comparison is: suppose there is a truck filled with cars. You steal it and you give them away for free. Believe it or not, exactly the same thing with file sharing.

In Belgium, a 16 year old is brought to court for doing this, and believe me, she will be found guilty and her parents will have to pay a huge lot of money.

Another thing I would like to add in addition to Musik's excellent economic reasoning about price going up and so on. The fact that there is less and less real sales also will have the result that less and less money can go to new bands, new records, new styles, ... because now the record companies are going for plain and ordinary stuff of which they are 200% sure it will sell. This results in less quality products (because they don't have that much of a profit margin) making it all crappy in the future, and believe me that future is right around the corner.

Just my thoughts

kind regards
Tisse

ps: you'll probably all disagree with me, but that's your choice, downloading a song is stealing it without having respect for the author of it, without having respect for the blood sweat and tears that artist put into it.
  • mendigo
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Post 3+ Months Ago

If the government really wants to catch someone sharing music and making a profit ???
Just visit a FLEA MARKET ay given Sunday.
Is no t KAZAA or NAPSTAR or etc... is the government who is not looking in the right direction.
For instance if someone is trespassing my property I will hire someone to build a fence around it.
Now if someone is making a copy of my CD I will hire someone to build a piece of software to disable the sharing and added to my CD.
Will it cost me more money? No doubt of it.
But it will eliminate my problem
Why go after the guy who downloaded 50 songs to listen when in the sidewalk is a guy with 50 CD for sale at a lower price than the regular price at the store and YOU KNOW THEY ARE HOT OR THEY WERE DOWNLOADED FORM THE NET and the police and the authorities do nothing about it.
""He even got a permit for it "" :shock:
  • Nucleo
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Post 3+ Months Ago

yes, i agree.

i have been to many markets and stalls and found at least 1/2 people selling illegal music, they have burned it to cd and are selling albums at £5.

they are the people that should be prosecuted (sp?) the people that actually try to benefit from stealing. I have downloaded the occasional mp3, perhaps i shouldn't have, but i dont regret it. I listen to it on my computer or burn it to a disc to play in my cd player. I dont sell the music, i dont benefit from it financially. the people that sell the music in the streets/online should be prosicuted.

Heck even I should be prosicuted, but i know so many people that download mass amounts of music and store them on home made servers for other people to share from.

it makes sense in a small way, why pay for something if u can get it for free?

with out any hassel from anyone else. the government may be annoyed, but they need to try harder to stop people doing this. i am sure they could hire a hacker and crack kazaa, then find the people that download far too much, make an example of them and perhaps other people will stop the P2P file sharing

my 2cents
  • Nego
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Kazaa's users sharing illegal music!?!?!?!?!?
blashpemy I say!!!!
Kazaa would never do such a thing!!!!!
  • Dragon
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Here I've not read all 3 pages of the forums cus sincerely I don't like reading much but i do righting so I've got a little something for ya all:

Well as you might already know the RIAA is doing lawsuit on those downloading MP3 and other softwares copyrited in peer to peer sharing softwares like Kazaa, Morpheus, ETC. Well I've been doing a seach and I've found 2 tools you migh want to have if you download songs.

:arrow: KaZaA Lite K++ Edition
Blocking of RIAA and other organisations (by using a list of 'bad' IP Ranges). (This is the most important feature, although it'll give you some protection its not 100% secure)
No spyware, adware, pop-ups, or banner ads.
No bitrate limits for MP3 files.
Multisource downloads have a maximum of 40 simultaneous sources.
Finds sources for a download once every minute instead of every 10 minutes.
Uploaders can't cut in line anymore regardless of their participation level. This improves the number of completed uploads and takes away the advantage that cheaters have.
Shared files are scanned every five minutes instead of every minute to save system resources.

Like I said Kazaa lite has a software included on the download packet that will protects your computer from out of a huge database of IP Addresses, (many of this tending to lawsuit you)

http://www.kazaalite.tk/

:arrow: Ok the second software is called Peer Gardian. Like the aplication included on the kazaa lite packet, peer gardian protects your peer to peer connection from a huge database of ip addresses, some of the IPs are not the same as in the kazaa aplication.

Each time you launch PeerGuardian, it downloads the latest list of known RIAA informants and blocks them from connecting to your computer. The list contains hundreds of known IP-address ranges the RIAA has used to catch file swappers.

Although it looks like a pretty hot aplication it doesn't protects you 100% eader, here is the problem. Imagine you are one of the workers for the RIAA you have a work machine at your work but you might have another one at your house on which you also catch people downloading songs. So the IP Address of you comp at your house might not be listed on the IP database from any of these 2 aplications.

Remember, the best way to not get caught is to not share pirated files.
  • Geekette
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Post 3+ Months Ago

http://www.kazaalite.tk was removed and at http://www.k-lite.tk you have to pay for a membership. Looks like they're trying to clean up their act a bit. Heh, it doesn't say anywhere on the site that it's even legal, though... :roll:
  • Dragon
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i don't know if you are getting the idea, the software is not ilegal, the one thing that is ilegal is to download copyrighted stuff... right>???
  • Geekette
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Ahaha, I just noticed a that they have a huge graphic that does say 100% legal. I'm slow like that...but yes, I do understand that the software is legal. It's just when they promise that you can download any song that you want from them that it doesn't seem like it would be completely legal. And the site is not advertising the software, it's advertising the songs and such that you can download with the software that you happen to need to do so... I suppose I don't make too much sense. I'm going to go back to hiding under my rock now!
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LOL Yea I've got what your saying Geekette.
  • Borrow -A- Geek
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Post 3+ Months Ago

couple of things i want to say on the subject, and i dont want to be a hipocrit, because yes i have and do download songs off kazaa lite, however, im not one to go and buy cd's in the first place. it is more of a convenience for me i guess.. but on another note, there are a number of local bands, that i really enjoyed their music and have actually purchased their cd's, not because i had to due to un availablility on kazaa, but because i think their efforts deserve to be paid for, kinda like when you tip a waiter, even though you dont have to... anyway, that being said...

those who say that there is no difference between burning a copy of a cd for a friend or shareing it on kazaa are completely incorrect. when you burn copy of a cd for a buddy, thats one copy for one person. when you share a song on kazaa, you are sharing it with 5 million users.. big difference...

for those that are saying that the RIAA is going after those that are downloading music. as of this date that information is false. they are actually targeting the uploaders, as in the people sharing the music... they are not currently targeting the leachers.

also as you may know i work tech support for charter pipeline cable internet, and we have to send warning emails to customers all the time for sharing files/music. but never (until two weeks ago) has charter given any personal identifying information to the riaa, as they believe that it is private information and the riaa doesnt have a right to this information. however tw weeks ago the riaa won a court injunction to have the names and addresses released to them for prosecution. so now it is a game of getting a judge to make the ISP's release the information to the riaa and others of the sort.

again i dont want to be a hypocrite, but if no one were to actually buy the cd's i think we would probably be facing the next depression of music.. no new and creative content and no major record labels to produce them. it's kinda like cutting off the hand tat feeds you in a sense.

my Fiance metioned to me that walmart is now selling digital music online for 88 cents per download... thinking about going that route... you surely cant beat the price!

anyway, thats my 2 cents on the matter.
  • digitalMedia
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Some good thoughts there, I think, GadgetGuru.

For me, after years of usenet and p2p, I've switched to iTunes. No, it's not the cheapest, but I'm not too worried about the price and I like their software (just that one piece of software). Now I buy all my music, audio books, etc. Although, I do occasionally go nab that cover version, or live version, or remixed version that nobody sells anywhere.

My decision had nothing to do with the RIAA, but my own conscience.
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That's pretty much all I use it for, digitalMedia. I mean, where else would one find Jimi Hendrix playing Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band live?
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Post 3+ Months Ago

:) , hello, about this Kazaa Lite being illegal and all, it is not illegal to download music unless you are the one posting it on the internet, the files you download is just like as if you are downloading free-ware, it is only illegal if you post the file, and is responsible for the file to be floating on the internet on the first place, basically it's only illegal if you put it on public distribution, give it to strangers you don't know, saling it to people, etc. Overall, it's perfectly safe if you just download it for yourself, there is no law that could stop you from doing that, RIAA and the MPAA is mostly after the people who post it on the net.
  • IH8Purple
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Post 3+ Months Ago

also you can claim that with KAzza and most other P2P programs that you are not actually downloading the song, you are only downloading parts of it, ass kazaa cuts all the downloads into "blocks" and you download a bunch of these blocks to get a song, be they blocks from one user, or blocks from many users.
  • rjstephens
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Post 3+ Months Ago

you know what I don't get? Why anyone pays for any msuic at all anymore. I'm not saying go get it all off kazaa. I'm saying that there are enough bands out there who are distributing their own music for free via the internet that you should be able to go find heaps of great music WITHOUT having to feed the pockets of those greedy *peach* at the record companies (no seriously, when you buy a cd, the artist usually gets less than 5%)

I download about 100 songs a week of http://modarchive.com/ (free and legal), but if the stuff there is not to your tastes just google for terms like "independant artist music free", etc. etc.

If I really like a song from a record company I buy it at http://bigpondmusic.com/ but I don't think that's available outside of australia.

Then there's http://launch.com/ run by yahoo, get music videos on demand from al your favourite artists, for free. it's a bit of a drain on the bandwith but i have unlimited so who cares!!! I usually don't even watch the videos, just minize it and listen.

Just my 2 cents.
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:) , was up ya'll, a little help from the public yo, I need to find me a car but I just get people around me saying Chevrolet is the best of them all, No No, Dodge is the best of them all, and then I get people saying that Ford is the best of them all, which I really doubt on this one, so I decided to make a voting poll at this address: http://www.geocities.com/ronsalas2000/ron_page.html, make a vote, thanks for the help you guys, Ron......
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:) was up ya'll, a little help from the public yo, I need to find me a car but I just get people around me saying Chevrolet is the best of them all, No No, Dodge is the best of them all, and then I get people saying that Ford is the best of them all, which I really doubt on this one, so I decided to make a voting poll at this address: http://www.geocities.com/ronsalas2000/ron_page.html, make a vote, thanks for the help you guys, Ron......
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Sorry, guys, for some it might come up saying it can't find the website, I think you will have to write it down on your address bar or you can right click, copy, then paste and then click on GO, sorry, thanks......
  • rjstephens
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Post 3+ Months Ago

musik, it's already possible to spoof mp3s in that way. all you have to do is make an exe and rename it to .mp3. Then distribute it on kazaa and when someone double clicks on the file windows realizes its an exe, runs it and BANG you get sued
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Post 3+ Months Ago

As long as you don't distribute it on exhibition, give it to strangers, like sharing it off Kazaa Lite, or saling, then they can't touch you, you have to be the one posting it in order to get sued, if you get sued just because you download it then you can screw them legally. You can counter sue because as of now, there is no law that says you can't download, until, of course, they change the law again.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

not true. It technically is possible to sue someone for downloading the songs. I think that they think that it's not worth the effort for the return.
  • armitagerocks
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Post 3+ Months Ago

i use kazaa lite it rokcs
  • rtm223
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ronniebass wrote:
:) , hello, about this Kazaa Lite being illegal and all, it is not illegal to download music unless you are the one posting it on the internet, the files you download is just like as if you are downloading free-ware, it is only illegal if you post the file, and is responsible for the file to be floating on the internet on the first place, basically it's only illegal if you put it on public distribution, give it to strangers you don't know, saling it to people, etc. Overall, it's perfectly safe if you just download it for yourself, there is no law that could stop you from doing that, RIAA and the MPAA is mostly after the people who post it on the net.


I know this thread is pretty well dead, but someone just bumped it and I saw this. A couple of points.

Receiving stolen goods is a crime, even if you don't know they are stolen
By using a sharing network, you are actually uploading files whilst downloading them. You <b>are</b> giving the songs to people that you don't know by using the filesharing.

As for "just downloading for yourself", that is covered under the recieving stolen goods laws. That's like saying that because someone else stole the car for you, you can't be touched by the law.

If you download a liscence key for a program, does that make your unpaid for copy of the software? No

I think this is the real problem with kazaa, so many people,especially younger people, use it and are <b>so</b> naive.
  • Uzzo
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Oh the irony!

Kazaa recently sued Kazaa Lite for Copyright infringement! They won their case and the shutting down of K-Lite soon followed. Therefore, if you have an older version of k-lite, you may find your downloads are slower coz they have changed something to make sure this happens.

Getting back to the point in question though, @ the end of the day, if anyone gets sued, it depends on how good their lawyer is to get them out of the mess. If its just someone thats sharing files then they have a better argument. If they are selling the shared files, they are in big trouble.

File-sharing is here to stay and it doesnt really affect record sales as much as it was initially thought. People, it seems, are getting increasingly frustrated about bogus files, low quality, spoof files, etc, that they do just go out and buy the music of the artists they really like. I use Soulseek for music, mainly because the stuff is easy to find and you can download entire albums with one click. Kazaa and others are good for videos and also applications.

We could go on forever about the goods and bads but I personally think the bad points outweigh the good points. Its a harsh world run on money and unfortunately this war is always going to be there as companies want to make sure that no-one is stealing their profits.

Wanna sue someone? Sue Sir Tim Berners Lee.
  • rjstephens
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heh it wouldn't surprise me if half of the bogus files, etc. where put there by the record companies
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Quote:
the end of the day, if anyone gets sued, it depends on how good their lawyer is to get them out of the mess


agree.

no matter how much harm or good kazaa is doing, it still comes down to this.
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rjstephens wrote:
heh it wouldn't surprise me if half of the bogus files, etc. where put there by the record companies


They are. I saw something on Dateline over a year ago (maybe even longer that that, come to think of it) where the RIAA was actually bringing in interns to create fake garbage files, tag them and name them as popular songs and diseminate them through filesharing networks. They were even using advertisements in some cases (instead of a song, you get a radio ad for the band you though the some way by, for example). Most of it was just a garbage file though. They had some system that would make a guess at how big a certian file should be, since people are smart enough not to download a 200K mp3 when they know it should be more likr 3 or 4 MB. It was a pretty sophisticated operation.

I don't agree with piracy, and I think copywright laws are in place for a reason, but the RIAA is going to far. DMCA contains some very constitutionally questionable clauses, some of which have unfortunately been upheld in court, that I very much disagree with.


.c
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ok one question.....
if i were to buy a cd...
would it THEN be legal to put it on a website.....
to listen to. NOT share....????
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Only if no one else can hear it, I suppose. If you distrubute it, then you could find yourself in trouble.

In truth, the RIAA's view is that, when you buy a CD, you're buying a limited liscense to the content of that CD in THAT format. It's their view that even ripping the CD is illegal. They don't hold the same so-called fair use idea that most software companies do, that is, it's ok to make personal copies for backup reasons. That is, for software, it is generally OK to make a copy of a legally obtained peice of software, put the originals in a safe place, and always use to copied version, provided you're only using it yourself (or otherwise as specified in the liscense agreement you purchased your software under).

The law is, in fact, very clear. I don't really understand how people can be that confused by it. You buy something for personal use, you only can use it for person enjoyment. You can't redistribute, in any format, the content of the CD (or whatever). Technically, it's even illegal to charge a cover at a party and play music, without paying royalties... but that's generally not enforced (probably for good reason, since so many people would sue to crush the silly law... and it WOULD be crushed, because every lawmaker in the country would hop up to change it as fast as they could)


Do I agree with it? Somewhat. I think it's important for the creators of art to be suitably compensated for their contribution to society. It's unfortnatly that actual music sales really doesn't go to compensate an artist, contrary to popular belief, but then, if the record companies didn't make money distributing albums, they wouldn't be, and we'd have another problem all together... Makes of an interesting conundrum, huh? =]

.c
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Kazaa's been annoying me for a while. mIrc is good though
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I use Imesh and Soulseek
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Going to music shops, hanging out there, listening to music and buying them from shops works best for me. Conventional way of getting music.

I still have the thrills in doing that, rather than downloading them or listening to them online.

end of it all, i have an album of original cds and not burnt cds. :-)
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I buy the CD, convert it to MP3 and share it to anyone that wants to listen.
I bought it, I paid for it and I own it.
Which means, I can do whatever I want with it.
If I wanted to use them as coasters, skeet or wind chimes, I would, I could and I will.
And, if I went to the public library, got a CD, converted it and shared it, it was public to begin with.
I love this "Chicken Little" crap the RIAA is pulling.
Welcome to the 21st century!!!
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I have a lot of music on cassettes, so If I want to burn one of those songs on to a CD, I will download it, and just burn it. I also use Kazaa as my music listening program, just becasue it's there. I also turn off file sharing because it slows down my connection....

I also live in canada, and at the moment, it's not illegal.
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Yankee_Bob wrote:
I buy the CD, convert it to MP3 and share it to anyone that wants to listen.
I bought it, I paid for it and I own it.
Which means, I can do whatever I want with it.
If I wanted to use them as coasters, skeet or wind chimes, I would, I could and I will.
And, if I went to the public library, got a CD, converted it and shared it, it was public to begin with.
I love this "Chicken Little" crap the RIAA is pulling.
Welcome to the 21st century!!!


:roll:

You own a <b>piece of plastic</b>, not the music. You can use the <i>physical disc</i> in anyway you see fit. Not the music. There is a clear and distinct difference.

You own a certain right to listen to that music

You DO NOT own the copyright to that music. Therefore you have no rights to copy the music.

If it is in the library then they have a liscence agreement for loan. The liscence will still stipulate that the end user mat not make copies.


@ Tom, are you sure? I'm suprised Canada does not have any copyright laws, although I don't know for sure. Just seems unlikely to me. Quick search on google for canada copyright music:
<a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1025-5121479.html">Canada Deems p2p downloading illeagal</a>
So, you sure it's ok?
  • PrISM
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Yeah well, people who are sharing that much music, movies, software, and so on need to really watch themselves.
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Yankee_Bob wrote:
I buy the CD, convert it to MP3 and share it to anyone that wants to listen.
I bought it, I paid for it and I own it.
Which means, I can do whatever I want with it.
If I wanted to use them as coasters, skeet or wind chimes, I would, I could and I will.
And, if I went to the public library, got a CD, converted it and shared it, it was public to begin with.
I love this "Chicken Little" crap the RIAA is pulling.
Welcome to the 21st century!!!


This is what I mean. How can you possibly think using someone else's intelectual property rights is ok? Forget law, it's just not right, not without permission. If the CD jacked said that the band is cool with you redistributing their music however you want, to hell with the RIAA, then I'd say go for it. I don't consider the RIAA in authority over the music, even if they do hold the copyrights. I don't oppose piracy because I support the RIAA. I oppose it because I wouldn't want someone to give away for free something I worked hard on in order to sell.

Buying music is like paying taxes in a way. If you don't give money for the music, eventually the music goes away, just as with taxes, if you don't pay taxes, suddenly things like the police, road repair, 911 services all start to go away... Regardless of what the whisper of the American Dream says, you CAN'T have your cake and eat it too.

.c
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Carnix wrote:
Yankee_Bob wrote:
I buy the CD, convert it to MP3 and share it to anyone that wants to listen.
I bought it, I paid for it and I own it.
Which means, I can do whatever I want with it.
If I wanted to use them as coasters, skeet or wind chimes, I would, I could and I will.
And, if I went to the public library, got a CD, converted it and shared it, it was public to begin with.
I love this "Chicken Little" crap the RIAA is pulling.
Welcome to the 21st century!!!


This is what I mean. How can you possibly think using someone else's intelectual property rights is ok? Forget law, it's just not right, not without permission. If the CD jacked said that the band is cool with you redistributing their music however you want, to hell with the RIAA, then I'd say go for it. I don't consider the RIAA in authority over the music, even if they do hold the copyrights. I don't oppose piracy because I support the RIAA. I oppose it because I wouldn't want someone to give away for free something I worked hard on in order to sell.

Buying music is like paying taxes in a way. If you don't give money for the music, eventually the music goes away, just as with taxes, if you don't pay taxes, suddenly things like the police, road repair, 911 services all start to go away... Regardless of what the whisper of the American Dream says, you CAN'T have your cake and eat it too.

.c


People just don't like to hear it carnix. Most people want all their rights and then some.

They want full copyright on their own work, and if someone takes/steals/copies/pirates it, there will be hell to pay.

But they are perfectly happy to rip off someone else because:
-It's in the public domain so it's ok
-It's on the internet so it's ok
-Someone else made the copy not me, so it's ok
-I'm not going to get caught by the law, so it's ok
-(add in ten thousand other immorral and unjustified reasons)

It's just double standards, plain and simple. We all expect the law to protect us, but never to condemn us. If someone commits a crime against you, you expect them to be punished. If you commit a crime against another, and get caught/punished/critisized then it's a great injustice, because it was "only a little crime" or (etc etc etc)

And if you think this isn't true, there is at least one member who has posted on this thread that they use p2p to download, and has also, in another thread, complained bitterly that someone stole their copyright. If you are willing to do it to someone else then why shouldn't it happen to you?
  • Carnix
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Post 3+ Months Ago

[quote="rtm223"]

It's just double standards, plain and simple. We all expect the law to protect us, but never to condemn us. If someone commits a crime against you, you expect them to be punished. If you commit a crime against another, and get caught/punished/critisized then it's a great injustice, because it was "only a little crime" or (etc etc etc)

[quote]

I couldn't agree more. It's not as if I'm some goody two-shoes or something. I've done my share of things deemed illegal. If I get in trouble for those things, then I deserve to, since they were illegal. For the most part, laws are in place of a good reason, although some are pretty, but that's a whole different thread an a whole different topic...

The general rule for me is very simple. Don't do something to someone that I wouldn't want done to me. Period. Don't kill, don't cheat, don't lie, don't steal... unless you're a pennyless freak with a deathwish who likes losing, never knows the truth about anything...

.c
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Quote:
It's not as if I'm some goody two-shoes or something.


No me neither, very few people are, but I'm all for the "do unto others..." ethos, it's good and healthy and if everyone played along, society would be a happyhappyjoyjoy place :D

(apart from those people that like pain or whatever, Id rather they didn't do unto me as they would I would unto them)
  • Miss_Bee
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I bet you anything Yankee_Bob wouldn't be saying that if it was HIS music or work being copyrighted and distributed so he loses money!
  • bkummer
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Post 3+ Months Ago

personally Kazaa is not my choice of p2p.

I have found ariesgalaxy.com to be nice. Morpheous, and emule to be better

Kazaa it not what i would use to dl anything.
  • Carnix
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Post 3+ Months Ago

For *legitimate* P2P networks, I personally like bittorrent...
.c
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Carnix wrote:
For *legitimate* P2P networks, I personally like bittorrent...
.c


Now that is funny. Bit Torrent may have started out that way but it hasn't ended up that way. BT has turned into the ultimate file sharing protocol for non-legitimate things. There are a plethora of tracker sites that offer nothing but music, movies, games and software.

Back to the illegal music discussion. I read/heard somewhere and maybe someone can back me up on this but musicians don't make much money off cd sales the record comany does. Yes, the musicians get a cut but the record company gets most. Musicians make their money off concerts and other things. I may be wrong on this but it seems reasonable. Lars Ulrich was noted that he really doesn't care about Metallica's music being downloaded it was the principle of the thing, not that they were losing money. And a lot of musicians share this philosophy. A lot of them like the fact that their music is getting out there and influencing people's decisions to buy their music. Quite honestly I don't think I would mind my band's music being downloaded at all, I would be flattered in a sense. If my band was any good I would stil be making money and giving most of it to the record label anyway.
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grinch2171 wrote:
Carnix wrote:
For *legitimate* P2P networks, I personally like bittorrent...
.c


Now that is funny. Bit Torrent may have started out that way but it hasn't ended up that way. BT has turned into the ultimate file sharing protocol for non-legitimate things. There are a plethora of tracker sites that offer nothing but music, movies, games and software.

Back to the illegal music discussion. I read/heard somewhere and maybe someone can back me up on this but musicians don't make much money off cd sales the record comany does. Yes, the musicians get a cut but the record company gets most. Musicians make their money off concerts and other things. I may be wrong on this but it seems reasonable. Lars Ulrich was noted that he really doesn't care about Metallica's music being downloaded it was the principle of the thing, not that they were losing money. And a lot of musicians share this philosophy. A lot of them like the fact that their music is getting out there and influencing people's decisions to buy their music. Quite honestly I don't think I would mind my band's music being downloaded at all, I would be flattered in a sense. If my band was any good I would stil be making money and giving most of it to the record label anyway.


on Bit Torrent: yes...but you don't have to connect it to those networks... I only referring to the technology, not the uses some have found for it.

on CD sales: You are correct. The artists make very little money from direct CD sales because, in most (but not all!) cases, the publisher owns the copywrites, not the musicians themselves. This isn't always the case, especially where the artists are actually writting their own music. Nevertheless, the record companies take most of the profits from CD sales because they are putting in most of the investment to produce the CD. Generally, the record companies pay for ALL of the engineering, distribution, artwork, etc that goes into a CD production.

The artist, with the fame generated from the CD sale, then goes on the road where their real money is, they also sign deals for merchandise and that sort of thing (big money, in some cases). Some even do movies... all because the record company fronted an assload of money to get a CD out to several hundred thousand music shops (or more) worldwide.

If they record company didn't make all that money, they wouldn't bother. Simple economics. Most artists don't have the many thousands (or even millions) it takes to get big distribution deals and do the global promotion it takes to elevate themselves to fame. That's the service the record companies provide.

.c
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Post 3+ Months Ago

reading through all this stuff, but I'm still confused...

why were the songs illegal?
did the music rob a bank or something?

anyways, the verdict in Canada on file sharing is it's ok, the jusdge compaired to to "having a photocopied in a library, a building full of copywritten materials" (paraphrased)
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The music isn't illegal, using it in a way not in accordance with law was illegal.

In the US, it's legal to photocopy books in a library, provided you are using them for a purly educational use. You cannot reproduce copywritted material for profit for any reason, or for redistribution in any way, without the express consent of the copywright holder. PERIOD. Now, most people who write a book really don't give two $hits about someone using their work in a school project, provided it's properly sited, even if it means photocopying pages instead of checking the book out. You're not going to photocopy the whole book a hundred times and go hand out copies... that would be silly, and, in fact, illegal. JUST LIKE WITH MUSIC.

I doubt that judges ruling will stand, because if what you said was his justification, it definatly won't. Then again.. Canada... who knows. You guys have some pretty sweet drug laws =] I mean.... lienient! :roll:

.c
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Carnix wrote:
Then again.. Canada... who knows. You guys have some pretty sweet drug laws =] I mean.... lienient!


heh, but if we don't spend millions in policing for drugs, we can spend the time and recources in someing more important, but lets not get into that.


again, I did not witness the court procedings, so I do not know the entire justification behind the ruling, however that was a timbit I picked up from the media.

however, if law informent send that much work on stomping out music distribution, they are going to have to stop people from burning CD, letting friends borrow their CDs, and, of course, letting other people listen to it (such as at a party)


don't get me wrong, I am not saying that sharing music should be legal, nor am I saying that it is eathical, however, I AM saying, there is not much that can be done about it.
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IH8Purple wrote:
don't get me wrong, I am not saying that sharing music should be legal, nor am I saying that it is eathical, however, I AM saying, there is not much that can be done about it.


A agree completely, and really, that's the fault of the RIAA for not being willing to alter their business model 10 years ago, when it was more or less obvious that this sort of thing was coming.

I've read and seen interviews with the MPAA that talk about how they (MPAA) are watching very closely what the RIAA is doing... they have more time, since movies are a hundred times the size of songs and so online sharing is much less of a problem (since good DVD quality video takes hours, even with a fast 1.5MB connection). They recognize that their time is coming, though, and are already working on plans to deal with it, other than suing 12 year olds and forcing new draconian laws to be passed.... Right now, apparently, the illegal online sharing of movies that is going on isn't really concerning them, at least, not nearly as much as the wholesale piracy going on in China, for example, does... But eventually, when the technology is there, it will become just as big a problem for the MPAA as it is for the RIAA...


.c
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Post 3+ Months Ago

the one thing I am most suprised to see is the lack of effort programs are putting into anti-pirating measures.


I would personally do a windows model type thing, where the program need to be activated after X number of days

this could work to the advantage of companies, as now they are offering free trials, you could limit the program's abilities until unlocked, and distribution costs may go down.
  • grinch2171
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You will not stop piracy. Not possible. There are talented programmers on both sides of the law tha will work hard to counter act the other. I know someone who bought a CD that just wasn't copyable no matter what he did. He asked a few simple questions in the right places and bam the cd is now copyable without using any special programs. XP wasn't supposed to be pirateable, well that didn't work out too well either. Piracy will continue no matter what.
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grinch2171 wrote:
You will not stop piracy. Not possible. There are talented programmers on both sides of the law tha will work hard to counter act the other. I know someone who bought a CD that just wasn't copyable no matter what he did. He asked a few simple questions in the right places and bam the cd is now copyable without using any special programs. XP wasn't supposed to be pirateable, well that didn't work out too well either. Piracy will continue no matter what.


unfortunattly that is true, but what needs to be done is to take piracy out of the hands of everyday people, and make it harder to copy materials without a large sum of (for lack of a better word) stuff at your disposal
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Post 3+ Months Ago

maybe the music industry shld fork out some $$ and form a body to deal with kazaa?
a tracking/IT company with that much amoutn of support ($$) may work out.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

They sold it to you!
They gave up all their rights to it when they signed the contract and took the money!
Your not dealing with the artist, your dealing with the business man!
There NO morality in business, just a profit margin.
And if you play into it, your just a customer of the business man.
You forget your dealing with 21st century technology with 19th century business mentality.
And by the way, I am a musician and if my music was shared to you, its what I wanted to express my art.
Why are all the simple issues in life exploited by business and backed by the misguided?
Lets try it in a different way, OK?
I sold you my 1969 Roadrunner with a 426 Hemi.
It came with my custom paint job and interior denom upholstery.
Do I get any money from you for giving a drive to someone or selling the car to someone else?
Is there really a differents?
Are we really a nation of sheep here?
Do we really need to have another Boston Tea Party?
You know, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, guess what it is?
  • rtm223
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Yankee_Bob wrote:
They sold it to you!

They sold you limited useage rights, same as with software. As I said before, the disc belongs to you, the data does not.

Yankee_Bob wrote:
And by the way, I am a musician and if my music was shared to you, its what I wanted to express my art.

You have the right to authorise that. It's your intellectual property so you can say "yeah copy it, I don't mind", and that is all well and fine. I have no problem with this.

But WTF gives you the right to say, "yeah copy someone elses stuff". Nothing. Just because you want to freely share your work does not mean that everyone else is required to conform to your mindset. They are perfectly within their rights to protect intellectual property.
  • madmonk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

sold it to me? lol.
i dont see it anywhere....
  • Yankee_Bob
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Its quite simple.
The moment you exchange your goods for a profit was the end of your rights to it.
If RIAA can't secure they investments, "Let the buyer beware".
Again I state, "21st century technology with 19th century business mentality".
If musicians are having an issue with this, it would be in there best interest to bring there business else where.
Don't you dare tell me if you were walking down the street and found a twenty pound note on the ground, with no one about, you would leave it there.
The internet is just that street.
A world of information at the cost of internet connection service.
Or, AM and FM radio.
How about VHF or UHF broadcasting?
I'm not a thief, but I will pick up the twenty spot on the sidewalk.
And if the person who lost it can about, I would gladly return it to them.
The RIAA is running about cry they lost a twenty pound note.
Let them prove its truely theirs.
I feel nothing for the musician selling their goods and crying foul.
  • rtm223
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Yankee_Bob wrote:
The moment you exchange your goods for a profit was the end of your rights to it.


Like when I go to hire a car. I give the hiring company money and they now have no rights to the car. It is of course mine because I have given them money for it :roll:

And the phrase "I'm not a thief, but I would take what is not mine", is about as naive as you can get. Don't hide behind dubious semantic arguments. Say what you mean, "I am an oppourtunistic thief, but I would not pre-meditate theft". If you cannot say what you mean then you can never mean what you say.

Also your argument is incorrect, as it would only apply if you <b>did not go looking</b> for the music, you would have to stummble accross by accident it in the street that si the internet. Otherwise it's premeditated and not at all the same.

If you by a <i>liscence</i> to something, you agree to abide by that licence. If you buy a limited useage licence then you can use the product within the confines of the licence. It's like a contract. You give them money for a specified product, the product is the licence, not the data. You are paying for the priviledge to use someone else's itellectual property,which is protected by international law, and does clearly belong to them.

The law on intellectual property is quite simple, as is the morality. I don't understand how anyone can be confused by it, tbh
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Post 3+ Months Ago

If I were to "Hire" or "Rent" a car, it would mean you would be bringing it back to them.
That much is obvious.
Taking what is not yours is part of human nature, to pretend you are above this is purely arrogant.
The rest of your retort is basically . . . well, re-read the post.
I do agree with you on the morality issue side, but that would mean you would have to believe there is morality in business.
And this whole issue is business.
I'm going to try this "Quoting thing".

If RIAA can't secure they investments, "Let the buyer beware".
Again I state, "21st century technology with 19th century business mentality".


Now, what does that tell you?
I know, it doesn't make it right, but "right" is still a morality issue and we are still talking business.
The part of, "did not go looking" statement is one of the most . . . well, I'm still human after all. And, thats what humans do. We look.
The part about "licenses" I'll back you on all the way, as soon as you can find a way to issue them for people that are going to be parents.

The law on intellectual property is quite simple.

Only if you know how to say, "Let the buyer beware" in Latin.
Ok, that was uncalled for, and I do mean that.
I'm sorry.
But really man, can't you really see what the argument is all about?
It's about an agreement made to someone that couldn't be fulfilled in the real sense on the promise.
Remember what I said,

"If musicians are having an issue with this, it would be in there best interest to bring there business else where."
  • rtm223
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Yankee_Bob wrote:
If I were to "Hire" or "Rent" a car, it would mean you would be bringing it back to them.


And if you buy a licence you have not bough the product. Paying money and getting a physical item in return, does not mean you suddenly have complete rights to the item.

Yankee_Bob wrote:
Taking what is not yours is part of human nature, to pretend you are above this is purely arrogant.

I didn't say that I was above it. I said that it is still theft, whether oppourtunistic or not. Don't claim you are not a theif in the same sentence you admit to being a thief.

I can understand you claiming there is not morality in bussiness, but this is not excuse for you to not have any morality in the issue. Just because someone else is immorral is no excuse for you to be.

Yankee_Bob wrote:
The part of, "did not go looking" statement is one of the most . . . well, I'm still human after all. And, thats what humans do. We look.

Go on, say what you mean, don't trail off. If you mean it enough then say it, I won't be offended. However, it is a different thing.

One, you see something of value unattended, and take it.
The other, you specfically go to a place where you <b>know</b> there will be stolen goods on offer, with <b>the premeditated intent</b> of obtaining stolen, illegal items. They are very different things. Both theft, but different kinds of theft.

It's human nature to do a lot of things. Many of these are not acceptable in the civilised world.

Yankee_Bob wrote:
The part about "licenses" I'll back you on all the way, as soon as you can find a way to issue them for people that are going to be parents.

I think you are talking about parenting lisences like driving licences. Not entirely the same thing and I don't think it is relevent. I do agree some people should not be allowed to be parents though :lol: That, however is an entirely different moral issue.

I just looked up a definition of licence:
Quote:
The document granting such permission.

A licence grants you permissions. Permissions to use an item in a cerain way. To buy a CD is to agree to the licence. If you then break the licence it is a crime.

Yankee_Bob wrote:
Only if you know how to say, "Let the buyer beware" in Latin.

Caveat emptor? But it seems very much that the artist needs to be wary, seeing as they are getting screwwed on all sides. The buyer only needs to be wary if they intend to use the product unlawfully. I don't think I have anything to be worried about when I buy an album


Yankee_Bob wrote:
It's about an agreement made to someone that couldn't be fulfilled in the real sense on the promise.

I'm sure this does make sense, but it's a little vague, I would appreciate it if you could clarify that.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

The recording industry made a promise to the artist to distribute their works with guidelines to the consumer.
Knowing that technology would make their guidelines impossible to be enforced, they did so anyway and knowingly.
A licenses can mean many thing and is only a piece of paper if it holds no real foundation or merit.
All parties will have to agree on it for it to stand.
Purchasing a product is not an agreement to a licenses, thats how my boss, "Mr. Gates" screwed the U.S. Supreme Court and doubled his profits. But, that is a different issue and quite an amazing feat of legal work.
The recording industry has had these issues since the mid forties, and have not invested into securing their interests in the business sector in these avenues. That is why we can record just about anything.
But sharing these products with others is not the true issue, its how their shared.
Radio and television broadcasters paid for transmitting their products and are reimburse through commercial product advertising. It is up to the media companies to handle their side of the bargan with the products they giving.
Kazaa is now a paid file sharing media, and in membership, you are fulfilling your obligation to the product their in.
Hacked software allowing you to access the servers is souly the actions of the software user.
Caveat emptor! This means that the buy is souly respondable for being aware of its value.
It means nothing of how its used.
And last, but not least, the issue of morality in business.
There is none!
Only profit.
If you beleive you can show someone that there is, your going to be one of the greatest saleman known to man.
  • Carnix
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Ok.. lets break this on down a bit...


Yankee_Bob wrote:
They sold it to you!
They gave up all their rights to it when they signed the contract and took the money!


No, technically a vendor sold it to you. No one buys CD directly from the record company. Regardless, you purchased a CD and, as RTM said, limitied usages rights to the intelectual property rights contained on the CD. Those rights do not include free, ad hoc, redistribution rights.

Yankee_Bob wrote:
Your not dealing with the artist, your dealing with the business man!
There NO morality in business, just a profit margin.
And if you play into it, your just a customer of the business man.


yes, and? Are you saying that the artist who signs a contract to be paid money to create music isn't also being a business man? They sign a legal agreement with the record company giving the company distribution rights to their intelectual property. Did they include a clause that allows for anyone to electronically copy and redistribute this any way they see fit? Unlikely... If they DID, then there would be no problems, but of course, they didn't!


Yankee_Bob wrote:
You forget your dealing with 21st century technology with 19th century business mentality.
Quote:

Yes, admittedly, this is true... but what does that have to do with the law? Nothing.

Yankee_Bob wrote:
And by the way, I am a musician and if my music was shared to you, its what I wanted to express my art.


That's your perogative. You won't get a record studio to agree with that... if you sign a record deal, part of that contract is a distribution rights agreement. I'd be willing to be that, if you have a record contract with any significant label (indie or otherwise), that you don't have the right to allow anyone and every free access to redistribute your music produceds under the terms of your contract (that is, for any CD being released by that label).

Is this right? ethical? I don't know. It's not really relevant to the discussion. We're talking about whether somethings legal, not "right"


Yankee_Bob wrote:
Lets try it in a different way, OK?
I sold you my 1969 Roadrunner with a 426 Hemi.
It came with my custom paint job and interior denom upholstery.
Do I get any money from you for giving a drive to someone or selling the car to someone else?
Is there really a differents?


Is there a differences? Yes, there is a major difference. When you sold the car, you granted a complete releases of rights to the me when I purchased the car. If you and I had signed a contract that stated that I couldn't sell the car to anyone without paying you a fee, if I sold the car and didn't pay you, you could sue me for breach of contract. As already stated, when you purchase a CD, you are not granted an unlimited, transferable liscense. You are granted a limited, exclusive one. You can transfer it, if you want, by selling the CD or giving it away, or whatever, but if you do that, you give up whatever limited rights you had over that CD.


Yankee_Bob wrote:
You know, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, guess what it is?


My point exactly... Seems to me, you're the one not recognizing the reality here...

.c
  • chaman
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Post 3+ Months Ago

digitalMedia wrote:
Some good thoughts there, I think, GadgetGuru.

For me, after years of usenet and p2p, I've switched to iTunes. No, it's not the cheapest, but I'm not too worried about the price and I like their software (just that one piece of software). Now I buy all my music, audio books, etc. Although, I do occasionally go nab that cover version, or live version, or remixed version that nobody sells anywhere.

My decision had nothing to do with the RIAA, but my own conscience.


ok well this dude is right i dont know how many more pages there are of this subject but heck im not going to read them all. as i read this (page4-5) my mind changed so many times, man and actualy the only reason i read this is because my consience isint realy clear.
so
ima try and do what this dude is going to and get a LEGAl way of doing buisness(i dont mean sell pirated music).
anyways its hard though since most will agre that 50 to 80% of ppls using P2P are teenagers from the ages of, oh lets say 12-18, WERE BROKE even then 17 and 18 yr old ppls are. kinda sad so we cant d load music from one of those legal pay sites but il try to convince parents since im in that 50-80 percentage.
Still its kinda the musics buisness falt since their prices began to rise even b 4 the P2P programs were popular. if they were cheaper dont you think they would be safer andactualy buy the cd?

but anyways ther are my *5* cents
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Borrow -A- Geek wrote:
well all i can say is good luck tracking and attack all of us.. the best they may do is effectively scare some people in to not sharing their files.. which is probably their big plan anyway... judges notoriously are soft people that are blatantly being made an example out of by a large corporation.. so i guess we will see if anything really happens to him


or maybe they get bribe
  • darksat
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Post 3+ Months Ago

At the end of the day people will outsmart the RIAA people will do what they want to do.
you cant tell someone living on a base wage to give up a night out or a good meal just to buy a cd that they can download for free so some ritch musician can buy a new merc,
Kazaa lite Resurection rocks in my opinion.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

X-acly, rich a$$es get money thrown at them from all directions, and i know so many people who have stacks and stacks of cds at home whereas some just hae 10's of thousands of music just in their pc. u can transfer the mp3s onto iPod too. :D
  • Carnix
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Post 3+ Months Ago

While some of the legality issue is centered around whether its ok to transition music purchased from a physical format to a digital one, the primary issue at hand here is whether it's ok to aquire new music without paying for it.

Look, call a spade a spade. If you get a song that, all else being equal, you would have had to pay for, then you're stealing that song, or at least, you're aquiring stolen merchandise. It's only marginally different than buying a bootleg or going to Russia any buying the magically cheap software (Photoshop for *only* $5 USD or so... for example).

For me, baring any marketing and promotional arrangements, if I were a professional musician trying to make a living from my music, it's in my best interests that the record companies make as much money from me as possible (artists make very little from record sales, it mostly all goes to the recording companies). If they start seeing slumps, or worse yet, losses with my name next to it, that could be the end of my career, and that would be bad.

But, in the end, it's between you and your morals whether this is an ok practice. Just remember though, it's a myth to say that not paying for music only hurts the recording company, and not the artist.

.c
  • IH8Purple
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Post 3+ Months Ago

hey, here is a cool atricle about the whole situation


http://www.warez.com/docs/articles/20yearsofwarez.html


(sorry if it was already posted, but I don't have time to hunt through 100 posts at the moment)
  • thedog
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Post 3+ Months Ago

yo p2p sharing is legal priviatally in canada checked it up. Though i think the stuff is on the table so take it u know? Why lose on an offer like that. It stupid how the goverment works. They make us pay land that god gave us for free. Its creul. And in the long the goverment doesn't help u. Its a shame. So i say if its there its legal in my opinion and i copyright laws geez the world gone mad. I pay for the phiscal disc and the physical data onb the disc not the copyright. And if i don't sign a agreement that i pay for copyright as well. Then i don't buy. (this is actually a loop hole in some goverments with copyright laws.) Thats my opinion according to law. I pay the goverment for my needs.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I haven't heard of any artist that has received a check for all of the money the RIAA is getting from sueing either. ITS just another scam to make a buck. They are just trying to get back the money they had to spend on the class action suit for price fixing cds. If they sold a product as a reasonable price they wouldn't have these "problems". FYI music sales are at the highest levels ever.....yeah P2P is really killing them...
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Post 3+ Months Ago

you could just use Kazaa lite k++
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Post 3+ Months Ago

thedog wrote:
yo p2p sharing is legal priviatally in canada checked it up. Though i think the stuff is on the table so take it u know? Why lose on an offer like that. It stupid how the goverment works. They make us pay land that god gave us for free. Its creul. And in the long the goverment doesn't help u. Its a shame. So i say if its there its legal in my opinion and i copyright laws geez the world gone mad. I pay for the phiscal disc and the physical data onb the disc not the copyright. And if i don't sign a agreement that i pay for copyright as well. Then i don't buy. (this is actually a loop hole in some goverments with copyright laws.) Thats my opinion according to law. I pay the goverment for my needs.


I'm sorry, but what you said here really doesn't make any sense. I'm not referring to the grammer either.

If it's legal in Canada, great. Canada is an awesome country with really nice liberal laws. In the US, however, it's still illegal. If you are in the US, you CANNOT DOWNLOAD COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL WITHOUT A LEGAL AGREEMENT EXPLICITLY ALLOWING YOU TO DO SO.

If you've purchased the CD, in general, fair use allows you to make a digital copy of the music for personal use only. You CANNOT distribute it, for profit or otherwise. That also means, regardless of whether you've distributed it in reality you CANNOT make it available for distribution. Posting it to a newsgroup, sharing it on a p2p network, emailing it to your friend or even burning a copy to CD and giving it away is all ILLEGAL.

The RIAA isn't going after people who are manually giving a copy to a friend here an there, that's happened for a long time, and isnt' really a serious problem. The are going after the wholesale pirates who are openly and freely distributing copyrighted material on p2p networks.

When you buy a CD you are implicitly agreeing to the copyright laws applicable to you where ever you happen to be. If you buy a CD in Japan, and come to the US, you will be bound by US law, not Japanese, with regards to how you handle the material on the CD, unless you've got some overriding contract, which is more than likely not going to be the case.

The fact is this:

Quote:
I pay for the phiscal disc and the physical data onb the disc not the copyright


Is simply wrong. When you buy the CD, the data on the disc IS the copyrighted material, and you are legally obligated to treat it as such.

I'm not here to judge anyone for downloading copyrighted material, but know that when you do (or more importantly, when you make copyrighted material available), you are breaking the law, simple as that, and there are many people out there trying to find you.

.c
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I understand what you mean and i do respect that. Yet the price for a cd is somewhat ridiculous. I don't know about America, but in canada most of the public library let you rent movies (like Lord of the Rings.). The amount of people who rent them is no different from downloading them off the internet. ( Public libraries are owned by the government by the way.) As said by others earlier, artists should sell their music (somehow) privately. I think downloading is wrong, yet i think that the companies who sell the music are just as bad.

Also i'm a crapping writter, so please don't offend me.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

thedog wrote:
Also i'm a crapping writter, so please don't offend me.


I'll try not to =]

You're right about the price of a CD. The general trend for consumer goods is that, over time, the price of the good will drop. It happened with tapes, it happened with records, it happens with electronics, computers, you name it.

But not CDs. The average retail price for a CD has actually increased over time (from around $15 up to around $16, USD). This is unheard of, and really crappy, because the MSRP on CDs is set by the RIAA, meaning the price of a CD is, in fact, the RIAA's fault.

When prices rise (or otherwise remain above the accepted threashold), comsumers will begin to look for other avenues of varying degree of legality.

Nevertheless, regardless of the philosophical issues involved are, the action is illegal, even if it has been, in affect, caused by the very entity the act is being perpetrated against.

.c

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