Obama on health care

  • mk27
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Post 3+ Months Ago

So I just listened to Obama's speech live on the radio, I was pretty impressed with the idea if he gets it, altho I think he should have pushed something way more "left" and forget the possibility of him being perceived as a middle path guy, since obviously the far right in America has singled him out as some demonic new entity that could not be anything "moderate", maybe this is racial :lol:

Anyway, I'm a Canadian who's been living in the US for years, and the health care debate has been a riot in the sense that Canada is one of the examples constantly held up as something to avoid because they are too much "socialisticly" so or something*. By riot I mean that I grew up being able to walk into ANY hospital or doctor and get treated just like anyone else and not have to pay for anything, which is a stark stark contrast with life here in the US, so the whole idea that any significant percentage of the population would be objecting to "Canadian" style health care is nearly psychotic.

But if Obama succeeds, it could be like a big day in history, since American really does lead the world in many ways. While it may be one of the last developed nations to implement universal heath care, it could also be an example to the developing world if it does.

* what they say about Europe is a constant comedy
  • digitalMedia
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I find the quips about Canadian healthcare funny, too. Altough I live in South Carolina, I once tried to organize a curling league here. Result was I met every Candadian in town, or darn close to it. They all told me something similar - the planned to stay in the US for their jobs/work, but retire in Canada for health care.

(Oh, actually they all told me another thing, but satellite dishes and the CBC aren't really cogent.)

My Dad was in Nova Scotia a few years ago and hurt his hand. He got treated quickly, efficiently and nicely. I know, that last one is a real kicker for most in the US. We don't associate healthcare with niceness.

I'm also a guy (with family) who's had BC/BS nearly double his premium in about 6 years despite no major illnesses, hospitalizations or claims. My monthly healthcare premium is now more than the last two car payments I had.

The few times I've been to seen a doctor for checkups in the last 6 years, the service sucked in every possible way. Despite a premium on the move up, BC/BS automattically rejected the claim filed by my doctor - as a matter of course.

I'm for change in US healthcare on many levels and in many ways.
  • jflynn
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I think they shoudl drop the issue. If you've got a crap job and can't afford healthcare... you don't get it. Get another/better job.

I dont' want to pay for the losers of the world.

FYI, I don't have healthcare because I don't want it.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I think we have a major problem with healthcare in the United States and I am all up for changes too. Since I am self employed I am one of those individuals who have to pay 3x the rates to get the same coverage as with a big company who can negotiate much better rates since they have a large number of employees. I am insured but only on catastrophic insurance as it just costs so much. I rarely ever goto the doctor, and when I do I still have to pretty much pay the entire bill.

I agree with the fact that everybody should be insured, sort of like car insurance. Who picks up the cost if you goto the emergency room jflynn because for some reason you all of a sudden are dying because you just got into a car accident? Lets say you aren't able to pay because you are unmeployed like many in this country right now? The taxpayers will end up paying it or people who goto the emergency room who can pay will end up paying much higher amounts to cover those who don't pay. It is unfair. Somebody has to pay it.

Did you ever see the movie John Q?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0251160/

Quote:
A down-on-his luck father, whose insurance won't cover his son's heart transplant, takes the hospital's emergency room hostage until the doctors agree to perform the operation.


In this case they check to make sure he can pay before they help him and since he cannot afford it they will just let his son die. They have all the technology to save his son's life but they won't. I understand this is just a movie, but the concept is the same. In my opinion someone who is a citizen of the United States that needs medical help should be able to get it whether they can afford it or not. It shouldn't also empty their life's savings.

While I love living in the United States, I think we probably have one of the worst Health Care systems in the world that is probably overall more pricey and offers less than average care.

There is alot of wasted money with healthcare such as junk lawsuits, overpriced drugs, and some states have barely any competition between insurance companies, etc.

The company my dad works for just dropped all health care coverage for their employees because they can no longer afford to compete and also provide their employees coverage. Lucky for my dad he can get Verteran's Health Insurance. It would be kind of scary if my parent's didn't have health care insurance. They worked hard their whole lives and now at the age they are they definetely need it and couldn't afford it to pay it all on their own.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I have this Montana Unified School Trust insurance, which is pretty good but I still feel it is a waste of my money. I don't go to the doctor very often, and when I do I usually end up paying a lot out of pocket because of the damn deductible.

Having insurance is kind of like gambling. You can buy insurance and spend lots of money on it, but never ever file a claim. Conversley you might never ever have insurance but it will only take one major car accident or tonsilectomy or something and you're screwed.
  • mk27
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Bigwebmaster wrote:
I understand this is just a movie, but the concept is the same. In my opinion someone who is a citizen of the United States that needs medical help should be able to get it whether they can afford it or not. It shouldn't also empty their life's savings.


Here's a reality for you: I have a friend who worked in construction, building houses and highways, etc. since his teenage years, a certified plumber and mechanic, until a point a few years ago in his mid forties when he decided to quit his current job in Florida and move back to NY for a while to care for his mother, who is in her eighties, making some occasional cash fixing cars.

Then a couple months ago he was diagnosed with cancer, and he's been told that since he is no longer insured and cannot pay for the treatment, he will probably die within the year.

Nice!
  • jflynn
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I'd figure out how to pay. that's just the type of person I am.

I'd never collect umemployment or go on Welfare either. It's the same thing all 3.

A bunch of ppl paying for the few.....
  • jflynn
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I'm not trying to be a jerk here so if i offend somebody. sorry.

I just don't believe in "free rides" and I sure as hell don't want to be paying for somebodies.

This country has/is moving from a Capitalist Sociaty to a Socialist one.

No more does "the best man gets the job" and "the best company makes the money" in the U.S.

If you have the money you pay for those that don't. Where is the motivation to do good? It's very sad!
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Post 3+ Months Ago

jflynn wrote:
I'm not trying to be a jerk here so if i offend somebody. sorry.


Not offending me! I had quite a good laugh at every 1 dimensional thing you wrote. :lol:
  • jflynn
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Post 3+ Months Ago

well when things are black and white you onle need one dimension :P
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jflynn wrote:
well when things are black and white you onle need one dimension :P


Ah, if it were only that simple.

All that I would ask is that you show me some proof of your assertions. Show me a nation anywhere on earth, at any point in history, that advanced itself with an "everyone for themselves, damn the rest" philosophy.
  • jflynn
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Cmon, i can only choose from Earth bases countries? WTF?

you mentioned Canada's awesome system. It's one that argues for my side. Look at the Tax Rates in Canada that help pay for it.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I use to go to ozzuland to escape the bickering on fox news and msnbc, now what am I going to do?
  • jflynn
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Post 3+ Months Ago

fair enough, i'll drop it......for now :P
  • digitalMedia
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Post 3+ Months Ago

jflynn wrote:
Cmon, i can only choose from Earth bases countries? WTF?

you mentioned Canada's awesome system. It's one that argues for my side. Look at the Tax Rates in Canada that help pay for it.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html


I think I'm missing your point here. Their overall tax rate is between 15% and 29%. Umm, ours is between 10% and 35%. Like our government, I would guess the largest segment of spending is military. I don't know though.

Again, I'm not sure what your point is.

(sorry kc0tma)

Actually, I didn't say Canada's healthcare system was awesome. I said the people whom I've known have spoken quite positively of it.
  • joebert
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Imagine.

Attachments:
us-health.jpg
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Sounds like the system that Canada has is the same the UK has. To be honest, i cannot imagine living in a country where you have to pay for your healthcare.

Even though i've known of the way America's healthcare system works for quite a while now it has actually come as a bit of a shock to me to hear that America has this system in place.

I think for that reason i am finding it hard to see where you are coming from jflynn. I don't for a second believe that people will lose the motivation to succeed just because they don't have to pay for healthcare.
  • joebert
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Well one thing's for sure. I'd love to get my hand looked at knowing it isn't going to cost me my other hand to do so. I had to have broken or fractured something in there two or three years ago now, it still feels, "different", and is always in "bearable" but constant pain. I'm afraid to do a lot of things with it out of fear it will get worse.
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If people are determined to live off government/tax payers/us/however-you-want-to-put-it, then they're going to do just that. Even without a universal plan, I know of a married couple with a child who abuse the heck out of the system. Parents are on Medicaid, child is on WIC, and they eat WAY better than I do - with foodstamps, they get $575 a month NOT including what's already covered for the baby by WIC!

The dog eats STEAKS for dinner because EBT covers it and they have a freezer full of them - dog food costs money!

Throw a little unemployment into the mix, and you get a lazy couple living off said sources who are in NO hurry to find jobs whatsoever (even though they 'apply' here and there to appease unemployment).
  • Bogey
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Universal Health Plan... are we really not going to pay for the service? I'm pretty sure the taxes would go up to accommodate such health plan... only good thing is every working person is contributing something to the system.

It got easier for the unemployed though... not that I'm trying to say that if someone is unemployed, then make it hell for that person. That person might honestly not be able to find a job.

Greatest motivation is work so you could afford to buy stuff, but when a person is able to get things for free and have it better than people who actually work... completely removes any motives to work.

A lot of people are happy just to gain the bare minimum living accommodations and poor quality of living through welfare.

...
  • joebert
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
I know of a married couple with a child who abuse the heck out of the system. Parents are on Medicaid, child is on WIC, and they eat WAY better than I do - with foodstamps, they get $575 a month NOT including what's already covered for the baby by WIC!


How well do you know them ?
People on programs are really good at looking like they have a lot when in reality they don't have as much as it might seem. It makes it easier for them to make it through the day if they can trick themselves into believing they have more than they do, which just happens to be something other people are able to see as well.

Quote:
The dog eats STEAKS for dinner because EBT covers it and they have a freezer full of them


The same stuff that you would get fresh from the butcher, or are they buying a bucketload of steak that's set to get ground up into hamburger the next day and they happen to get it for the hamburger price ?
You are aware that the "good hamburger" is just steaks and other premium cuts of meat that are getting too old to look pretty as steaks in the display case right ?

What are they going without to eat "well" ? I bet they can't say they were able to take their day off to climb through their brand new house stringing lines for Internet, cable TV, X-boxes, etc. ;)
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Post 3+ Months Ago

joebert wrote:
Imagine.

us-health.jpg


That has actually happened to someone my family's friend knew.

He got into a severe car crash and needed immediate medical care. The only thing though is that he didn't have insurance and was broke...

The doctors refused working on him until they found someone who was willing to pay for him...
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Quote:
How well do you know them ?


Very. Immediate family - every family has a black sheep, right? heh I'm pretty intimate with the details of most every stunt they've pulled thus far.

Quote:
The same stuff that you would get fresh from the butcher


Yep, same steaks your or I would go for at any major grocery chain's meat dept. I asked why the steaks and their answer - "If he was out in the wild, this is the closest to what he would eat" :roll:

Quote:
What are they going without to eat "well" ? I bet they can't say they were able to take their day off to climb through their brand new house stringing lines for Internet, cable TV, X-boxes, etc.


lol, nope, that they can't. I hope I don't give the impression that I'm jealous of what they have, because unlike them, I can see that they have nothing but a long road ahead of them. What they don't mooch from the gov, they get from the family, though, so they have a cabin on a waterfront that's paid for, a car they didn't pay for, and a WHOLE LOT of baggage (emotional/financial/name it) between them. They use unemployment to pay utilities, phone, gas and cable. Worst part is that their financial state is ruined for the rest of their lives and so much more but they live for the now and never for the future. You're right on with the illusion theory. They really do believe they are on vacation or something. One day their dream's going to fall apart and my family won't be here to help them any more and he'll be out of enablers to lean on. I hate more than anythhing that the child has to go through it (currently 1.5 years old). :( He is SO sweet, but in for such a rough life.
  • mk27
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$575 per month for a family of 3?4? to eat doesn't sound like an outrageous amount to me, altho AFAIK, the EBT amount for an individual is $150 month (and I know a few people with them). That's $5 a day.

Apparently, overall productivity per worker has gone up in the US during the recession, to compensate for lay-offs; ie, people are fired to cut costs, and then the people who remain working have to do slightly more work.

A capitalist economy requires unemployment in order to work, because this keeps wages down and ensures a ready "labour pool" -- people who can be employed quickly and cheaply when needed, and fired when not.

Who those people are is more or less a matter of musical chairs. It seems to me that if some people are going to benefit, grotesquely, from this arrangement, then those people need to feel some obligation, thru taxes or whatever, to those who do not benefit.

I can kind of understand jflynn's perspective, but the reason I would choose not to think that way is that it eliminates the pretence of or need for any respect between citizens. So, if I'm smart enough to get away with it, I might as well walk into jflynn's place, tie him to a chair, take everything of value I want, and then blow jflynn's head off to complicate any investigation. Why would I feel any sort of guilt about that? To paraphrase jflynn, I don't care about the losers of the world, such as the chimp without a face tied to his chair, or what becomes of them because of my greed, complacency, and general behavior.

Thus, in the interest of my own mental health, I'd rather think of a nation and it's citizens (at least) as being bound together by some human sentiment, or committed to some higher ideal other than you don't care about me, I don't care about you, so what? In that case, the only purpose "the nation" serves is to provide infrastructure and protection to corporations, who use this set-up to extract all the wealth from the nation's resources (including its people) and keep it, giving nothing back. Not exactly what I would call "the land of the brave and free", more like "a land of coerced and ignorant losers".
  • jflynn
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You guys are missing my point completly.

I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR YOUR HEALTHCARE.

that is what nationalized heathcare is about. my taxes helps you remove a kidney. i don't care about your kidney. i care about my money being in my pocket (unless i donate to a charity or something i believe in, which i do from time to time)

that site i linked to was just the income tax i think, everything else is taxed high as well.
  • jflynn
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I have an EX girlfirend that was on WIC and drove around in a new Lincoln Navigator.

One of the people that abuse the system for their own good and one of the reasons that she is the "EX"
  • grinch2171
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The closest thing we have to a nationalized health care system is what is currently provided to the military. I could at any time walk in and get seen, no co-pays (there were some co-pays for various things like mental health), no ridiculous forms to fill out. I just showed them my military ID and for the most part that was all I needed, same went for my wife and kids. Never got a bill for any of it except the birth of my daughter and that was $33 and that was for one night stay in the hospital and a meal. Granted most of my doctor visits were on a military installation and the quality of the doctors varied but in emergency situations I could go to a hospital and be seen without issue. And guess what, we are all paying for it, do you have a problem with that? I would hope not but you don't even realize it but you are. Part of your taxes helps support Tricare.
Quote:
The TRICARE program provides care for the military’s uniformed personnel and retirees, and for their dependents and survivors — in all, more than 9 million people. In 2008, the Department of Defense spent $42 billion on TRICARE, about 6 percent of total defense spending. The Congressional Budget Office forecast that TRICARE will consume 13 percent of total defense spending by 2026.

So think of nationalized healthcare like Tricare for everyone instead of just the military.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

jflynn wrote:
I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR YOUR HEALTHCARE.


You already are silly!
  • mk27
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jflynn wrote:
You guys are missing my point completly.

I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR YOUR HEALTHCARE.


No, you just want all the other things the government provides for you, such as a safe, productive, competitive environment in which to work, make money, and live your life.

My point is that would be much, much more difficult if it were not provided to you, because I will show up with a shotgun and ruin it but quick. Well not really, I'm not violent; but that is the situation in some places, eg, under the Taliban.

So you cannot claim that society and the government is doing nothing for you. That is paid for with something. Your problem is you do not want to give, you want only to take. People like that are generally recognized as "selfish pigs" and are kind of hard to take seriously, unless they are also violent ;) Which makes me think of a joke someone told me about those "Reaper" drones:

Q: What does a goblin say to a ghoul?
A: HAPPY HALLOWEEN!
  • SB
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Whoa, hang on. So you guys have to pay if your wife has a baby in a hospital?

Maybe i am just used to the National Health Service we have in the UK, but i find that completely wrong.
  • mk27
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SB wrote:
Whoa, hang on. So you guys have to pay if your wife has a baby in a hospital?

Maybe i am just used to the National Health Service we have in the UK, but i find that completely wrong.


Dude: one of the best stories I have heard here is about private policies that will only pay for hospital care during birth for ONE HOUR after admittance, because the insurance company is trying to avoid "abusers" who show up like a day early or something. So women were waiting in hospital parking lots for their water to break.
  • joebert
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Ah. I get exactly where you're coming from UPSGuy. Are they the type to brag about it behind closed doors, to which you just want to slap some sense into them but you can't ?

Quote:
You guys are missing my point completly.

I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR YOUR HEALTHCARE.


I'm not sure it's so much that people are missing your point, as it is just agreeing with you through silence. It kinda goes without saying sort of thing. I don't think anybody wants to pay for anyone elses stuff. At least not all of the time. :)

Quote:
So think of nationalized healthcare like Tricare for everyone instead of just the military.

Would be nice. I'd get my hand looked at tomorrow. It might even create a boom for the number of people getting into medical school to fill the demand.

If nothing else, I think the nations laborers should be included. The Military is provided with health care like that no doubt because they put themselves in harms way. Laborers are doing the same, granted laborers don't have people actively trying to kill them, they still get hurt trying to better the country though. It's not like everyone in the Military gets into it just because they want to save the country, if that were the case there wouldn't be all of those incentives to join. :)

Actually, we should make a list of all occupations in the USA. From that list we need to make two columns. One column for the occupations that make a living by making the country a better place, another column for occupations that make a living by taking advantage of others AKA capitalists. Non-Capitalist occupations get health care, Capitalist occupations don't.

Capitalists will just raise the price of other things and lower wages to account for the change, but at least people who put themselves in harms way for any reason at all can do so without worrying about their health.

If Capitalists were smart, they'd be jumping all over this healthcare for everyone stuff. Happy healthy employees work better.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

jflynn wrote:
I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR YOUR HEALTHCARE.

that is what nationalized heathcare is about. my taxes helps you remove a kidney. i don't care about your kidney. i care about my money being in my pocket (unless i donate to a charity or something i believe in, which i do from time to time)


I don't want to pay any taxes. Its that simple, but it is also a fact of life. Taxes happen unless you're going to go totally underground and live like Abbie Hoffman or Alexander Supertramp.

In Montana we don't have sales tax and property taxes are super low, and you can tell it through the services. The roads suck, and if you have an emergency and need to call the sheriff don't expect them to arrive very fast. If you don't want public health care, then don't pay for it and don't use it. Let those of us who want it pay for it. Yes, it is legal to not pay taxes. Remember "No taxation without representation"? Well, your beloved senators and congressmen don't give a rats ass about you. They are only loyal to their lobbyists and campaign contributors, they don't even know you exist. The point I'm getting to is that anarchism is getting to be a better idea every day, living by your own means and functioning totally autonomously.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

This has being circulating so many times on the web, through word of mouth and any other communication means imaginable...

There are two things certain in life: death and taxes
  • joebert
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Check out this little gem,
http://www.newsweek.com/id/215340/output/print

Quote:
In this week's Newsweek, Andrew Romano suggests that we should be eager to extend the boon of health insurance to illegal immigrants, because they're young and healthy, and will lower the average cost of the pool.


How does needing to plan ahead for more people, lower costs ?
How many illegal immigrants have you ever met who pay taxes ?
Moderator Remark: Swapped The Atlantic out with Newsweek
  • mk27
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Post 3+ Months Ago

joebert wrote:
How does needing to plan ahead for more people, lower costs ?
How many illegal immigrants have you ever met who pay taxes ?


Yes there will be a ball in play at some point if anyone wants to look for it.

I don't think I've ever read "The Atlantic". Looking at the cover for that issue left me thinking there is something subtle and surreal about it. :roll:

Actually this whole magazine is starting to look just plain as funny as current events generally are. Huh.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

It took me longer to come back here and think of a way to say this than it did to get the link and swap it out.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Hi all,

very interesting to see how US will change (or not) about health care.

Fortunately I never go to a doctor's but I do think that health care is one of the first things a dignified society should afford for its citizens at leat at the same level as education, school, security.

I'm proud to take part to society which tries to go past everybody's egoism including mine.

Health should be the first right in a society regardless of everybody's social background because health care is a first necessity like eating.
Health hazards doesn't watch out for achievement time in live.

May I reassure you, in my country , there is no statue of any communist dictator, and means of production and property in general are not under control of common ownership :-)

This is just a matter of place a society grants to human beings regardless each individual contingencies-chances- destiny-achievement-merit or whatever word make sense for you.

I wish America a health care system she deserves.
  • dyfrin
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Post 3+ Months Ago

How much healthcare expense is preventative?
When you have to pay for things out of pocket, you tend to take care of it more than if it is freely given. I believe this is true of your body. Look at how most people on continual welfare are...

This way, discretion is by the person seeking what option they should use.

In my opinion, health care is not a need, it is a privilege that you must pay for.
Everyone will die. Just because there is a cure, or surgery that could extend your life, do you deserve it? I am not sure on that. If you can pay for it, you can have it. Just like a flat screen TV.

Take this "need" further. If this is a Human decency thing:
Why don't we stop all surgeries that cost a lot of money, and instead give just simple food and vaccinations to every person in the world? How much more would that 44,000 bill for a knee replacement go to starved/unwell 3rd world countries?
Why do Americans "need" healthcare to where they will pay for each other, but not pay for non americans?

Life is precious, the loss of a family or friend is hard, but be it an accident or just a too expensive of an operation, you have to realize life does end. Hopefully you are ready for what is next.

But simply what would make America more healthy?
shutting down all tabacco, alcohol, and fastfood/frozenfastfood sales.
  • gisele
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Post 3+ Months Ago

dyfrin wrote:
How much healthcare expense is preventative?
When you have to pay for things out of pocket, you tend to take care of it more than if it is freely given. I believe this is true of your body. Look at how most people on continual welfare are...

This way, discretion is by the person seeking what option they should use.

In my opinion, health care is not a need, it is a privilege that you must pay for.
Everyone will die. Just because there is a cure, or surgery that could extend your life, do you deserve it? I am not sure on that. If you can pay for it, you can have it. Just like a flat screen TV.

Take this "need" further. If this is a Human decency thing:
Why don't we stop all surgeries that cost a lot of money, and instead give just simple food and vaccinations to every person in the world? How much more would that 44,000 bill for a knee replacement go to starved/unwell 3rd world countries?
Why do Americans "need" healthcare to where they will pay for each other, but not pay for non americans?

Life is precious, the loss of a family or friend is hard, but be it an accident or just a too expensive of an operation, you have to realize life does end. Hopefully you are ready for what is next.

But simply what would make America more healthy?
shutting down all tabacco, alcohol, and fastfood/frozenfastfood sales.


How much healthcare expense is preventative?
When you have to pay for things out of pocket, you tend to give up while facing financial deterrence. I believe this is true of your body. Look at how most people on continual welfare are...
You see this is a matter perception :-)


I don't know if you can't live without a flat TV but I suggest you to try to live with an appendicitis and maybe you will understand the biological sense of a "vital/necessary need".


What would make America more healthy?
make people able to go to diagnose/care health problem before its seriousness forces them to do it.
You are sensisitive to money arguments, the cost of health cares is related with the dévelopment phases of the disease.
This is true for the teeths, for cancer catching, etc.
How many diseases here are catched sooner thanks to simple checkup?

The side we can see the problem, is really revealing about the "unhumanizing" and brainwash power of the money.

Social darwinism is not a fatality.
  • UPSGuy
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Ah. I get exactly where you're coming from UPSGuy. Are they the type to brag about it behind closed doors, to which you just want to slap some sense into them but you can't ?


My god yes. They think it's just the cutest thing ever. /facepalm
  • kc0tma
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Post 3+ Months Ago

gisele wrote:
What would make America more healthy?


Better habits and less laziness. That means actually taking the time to cook your own dinner instead of driving through McDonalds 15 times a week, and shopping for fresh organic produce instead of deep fried and frozen crap, and exercising. That won't fix every single health problem we have, but it will make a pretty good impact.
  • gisele
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Post 3+ Months Ago

kc0tma wrote:
gisele wrote:
What would make America more healthy?


Better habits and less laziness. That means actually taking the time to cook your own dinner instead of driving through McDonalds 15 times a week, and shopping for fresh organic produce instead of deep fried and frozen crap, and exercising. That won't fix every single health problem we have, but it will make a pretty good impact.


Sure! unfortunately this is the problem of all the western countries.
That's part of our economic systems perversions.
Consumer behavior start at schools, with some "educational" sponsors (bad food marks)....
We don't consume this way because it's good for us but because the economic system need us to consume this way.
It's like an engine racing, the economic system is no longer at men service but men (their tastes, psychology, way of life, time, culture...) are simple material that are used and shaped by the free market.
Smell, componants witch send good signal to the brain, every single detail in Mc donalds is to preempt human primitive attractions.

cigarette is an intersting case. the perfect industrial product, this is nothing but some need, and the injuction to consume is chemically added inside the product.

western people are lazy and have bad habits because the economic system absolutely doesn't care about what is a good habit, or what activity could be virtuous for the body.
You cannot make good habits while children learn to read and write on coca cola educationnal game or ads go on telling milkyway is great for health.
  • joebert
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Post 3+ Months Ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9nVpO1Dvfk



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9nVpO1Dvfk
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Was that suppose to go horribly wrong? Either way, now he has the PETA people hating him.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

meh, I lost a bit more of the small respect I had for PETA when they retitled their blog to "The PETA Files". Read it out loud. You can't make that up.
  • joebert
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I don't think it happened the way it was supposed to. The way he looked into the pot and said "ok, forget the frogs" was just too funny to be scripted. He definitely didn't think that one through. They needed bigger frogs and less water.
  • joebert
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Quote:
I lost a bit more of the small respect I had for PETA when they retitled their blog to "The PETA Files".


I thought you were kidding. :lol:

Attachments:
peta-files.gif
  • UPSGuy
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Pedobear would be proud of them :)
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Glen Beck is such an idiot.
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kc0tma wrote:
Glen Beck is such an idiot.


Understatement of the year! It's really kind of sad to know his history, know what he used to 'support', and then see what kind of spotlight the media has given him.
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The worst part is that conservative people actually take him seriously. If he wasn't on faux news and was just a Joe Average on the street they would have him committed.
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Probably so. He's a walking contradiction. I hate the way they're allowing people to latch on and follow him the way they are. Just boils my blood to see how the Gen Pop will take their opinions from anything they don't have to read or research - i.e. the TV says it, so it must be so.
  • joebert
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Kanye, Beck, etc do the things they do because it generates a buzz. They couldn't care less what they're talking about, as long as people are watching. :)
  • UPSGuy
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I think they need to make a line of these with Beck's name just in the top of the circle:

Image
  • celandine
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Post 3+ Months Ago

hahaahah I see this conversation has moved but regarding the initial issue.... I still can't believe the US doesn't have some sort of national health coverage for everyone. All of Europe has it - granted it doesn't always work wonderfully, but it's an important part of a humane society. If you're a single mom with a sick baby and you can't afford insurance, the state shouldn't just let your baby die. There needs to be some basic care for everyone.............

and, ummm... I really like Obama :D Like, the first US president I'm genuinely enthusiastic about :D
  • joebert
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I really like Obama Like, the first US president I'm genuinely enthusiastic about


I agree. He's got that aura. Clinton had it. Regan had it. Kennedy had it. Lincoln had it.
  • UPSGuy
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I agree. He's got that aura. Clinton had it. Regan had it. Kennedy had it. Lincoln had it.


I have the same feeling, but I never really made the connection. It's like a coolness regardless of the pressure or a way with the people or something. Probably a combination of those and a few more. Whatever it is, he's got it.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Borrowing this one from Reddit

Katie Couric: "You said that Obama has a hatred for white culture. WTF is white culture?" Beck: "Umm, uhh, umm... the real story here is that Obama is racist."



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKZ1qbDyKOM
  • kc0tma
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Post 3+ Months Ago

And don't forget Rush Limbaugh saying he thinks we should have segregated school buses because white children are in danger around black children. *plum* man, that is stupid.
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Post 3+ Months Ago



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg2_MntkMzg

NSFW or young ears!
  • celandine
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Post 3+ Months Ago

UPSGuy wrote:
Quote:
I agree. He's got that aura. Clinton had it. Regan had it. Kennedy had it. Lincoln had it.


I have the same feeling, but I never really made the connection. It's like a coolness regardless of the pressure or a way with the people or something. Probably a combination of those and a few more. Whatever it is, he's got it.

I love the fact that he can stop in the middle of a serious debate and just laugh at something. He just seems like a normal, straightforward, fairly intelligent human being. He's not pompous in that inflated politician way, where they think they permanently have to project some sort of faux seriousness which actually just looks like an over-inflated sense of self-importance. I'd love Obama as the president of serbia - we sure could use one like him right now.....

and, ummm.... 'white culture'?? seriously, wtf.
  • joebert
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Post 3+ Months Ago

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