spain

  • grinch2171
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
and for the second reason Iraq were terrorist. prove it if its so.


http://www.newsmax.com/cgi-bin/printer_ ... 1831.shtml

http://www.hudson.org/files/publication ... rticle.pdf

That is enough proof for me.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

  • Cae
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nobody in their right mind should be pro-war, it is the same as being pro-death, and destruction... however, on the same note, one must also be able to recognize the neccesity of war. the United States was attacked, and to sit back and do nothing would only invite more of the type of events we all saw on September 11th. we had no choice but to go into afganistan, the Taliban was harboring the Taliban and Ossam bin Laden.

Now on Iraq. Nobody can dispute that Saddam was a horrible man... if you think that he wasnt, you can stop reading right now... nobody can dispute the fact that life under his rule was horrible, there are Iraqis in the United States who can speak to how they were threatened into complying with Saddam, and to say how he was 'a great leader' the schools were used as brainwashing stations, as has been reported be the teachers who teach over in Iraq. Like i have said before, i do not belive we should have gone into Iraq wihtout the UN, but i also belive that it had to have been done, i do not care if that way of life has been around for thousands of years, that does not change the fact that it is wrong. I know some of you belive that because of this veiw, i am placing myself in judgement of them, that may be so, but that is not my intention... you, by wanting to leave stuff alone over in Iraq, are supporting everything Saddam was doing to 'his' people...

i can only imagine what it must be like for the soldiers fighting in this war.... to be over in Iraq and have the citizens of thier country in open opposition to what they are trying to accomplish, it must be completely demoralizing. if you find yourself unable to support what the United States is trying to accomplish in Iraq, please find it in your hearts to at lest support the troops, they are fighting, and some are giving their lives for this cause...

and valddrac:
Quote:
I hope someone will come and lock this thread.

he was just expressing his opinion, why should you be entitled to an opinion and he should not??? just because he doesnt agree with you doesnt give you the right to cut him off. that is exactly the same as what was happening in pre-war iraq, just on a less extream scale.
  • grinch2171
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Post 3+ Months Ago

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i do not belive we should have gone into Iraq wihtout the UN


For those of you that don't know. The President has the right to place Marines anywhere he wants for no more then 30 days without anyone's approval. Haiti is a prime example. I personally don't think we need the U.N.'s approval on anything but that is just me.
  • Cae
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Post 3+ Months Ago

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The President has the right to place Marines anywhere he wants for no more then 30 days


i know that, and i do not belive that we needed anyone's permission to go into iraq, however the UN was set up for a reason, and although we dont need their permission, having the UN behind us just gives us more justification to be in there... and by defying the UN, we have weakened it forever...
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Post 3+ Months Ago

grinch2171, i really understand how do u feel, and i am saying it again i am really sorry for what had happened to you,but that is not the way how it works, every thing has its a bad and its good, and the solution is not by war.
and do u really believe what is says in the news.
TV is a media and behind it there are many rules. and i am sure that u know that.
my issue is that, people are dying here. either from ur side or the iraq people side.
if the problem was the president of Iraq, it would be really easy to give him one bullet on his head and then the problem is solved.
  • Vladdrac
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
he was just expressing his opinion, why should you be entitled to an opinion and he should not??? just because he doesnt agree with you doesnt give you the right to cut him off. that is exactly the same as what was happening in pre-war iraq, just on a less extream scale.


Yes you are right. I apologize grinch. It just upsets me to hear someone else with a theory of a nuke solution. I mean c'mon. You don't really think that is a solution. I know there are good people in Afghanistan and Iraq. So the death of millions of innocent people to correct a political error is justified to you? I served in the military and I have blood relatives and freinds that are in Iraq probably getting shot at right now, but I know they don't share that view with you.

Iraq was a mistake, but we are in it now, and we can't turn our back on them.

There are many rulers out there commiting the same autrocities that the bathe party commited. We are doing nothing about it, nor should we.
  • grinch2171
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Post 3+ Months Ago

BlueHat, the news is not always wrong. If you do enough research, most of what you read will lead you to the same thing. Saddam has funded many terrorist organisations. He himself may not be a terrorist but he gave them money. I understand that the news is not a good source of info. But I don't base everything I say on CNN or any other news agency. The links I posted earlier were the result of a quick google search.

Vladdrac, I know not every military member thinks the same. Nuking everyone is an extreme and I don't recommend it but if it came to that I would support it. Iraq isn't a total mistake. Could we have gone about it differently? Sure we could have but how many more terrorist actions would it have taken before something was done. I applaud Bush for his actions. I just wish I was with a deployable unit when OIF kicked off. Oh well. And as far as the other tyrant rulers out there, I am sure their time will come. Syria, Korea, and several other countries are being watched by intelligence and I am sure it will only be a matter of time before our attention is switched to another target.
  • BlueHat
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Post 3+ Months Ago

grinch2171 in a way u r not doing enough research, when u say terrorist make sure u know how first how this people become like that,
most countries are banned from thing that the US are allowed to have and that actually was the reason why the US went against saddam u thing they care about the people who they are suffering, no , they only dont like the fact that saddam is not doing what they want.
and u thing really US well go against Korea, that will never happened, and u will see that as the times passes.
if really the US care about the people because they are suffering there are many people are living and not having enough food and water.
so it would be better supporting these people.
  • grinch2171
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Going against Korea is not that crazy of an idea, we did it before. I know what a terrorist is. I have taken enough classes to know the definition of a terrorist and what they try to say with their actions. Not difficult to spot. As far as going into Iraq to help the people, that is a secondary thought once the major war was over. We went in there on the basis of toppling the regime and proving he had WMD's. We accomplished one mission. And as history shows, every country we go to war with we spend billions rebuilding what we destroyed. Helping the citizens of those countries is an after thought. Not our main intention. They may say that is our intention but it isn't, I think the oil is a major decision in this. We can sit here and debate all you want but my views are going to differ drastically from yours. But I have said my piece and I'm pretty much done talking about this.
  • IH8Purple
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Post 3+ Months Ago

OMG, if you belive that, as Americains, it is your job to stop terroirists in every country, here is A list of countries you need to attack...


Quote:
A
Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, American Samoa, Andorra, Angola, Anguilla, Antarctica, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Armenia, Aruba, Ashmore and Cartier Islands, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan


B
Bahamas, The, Bahrain, Baker Island, Bangladesh, Barbados, Bassas da India, Belarus, Belgium, Belize, Benin, Bermuda, Bhutan, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Botswana, Bouvet Island, Brazil, British Indian Ocean Territory, British Virgin Islands, Brunei, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Burma, Burundi


C
Cambodia, Cameroon, Canada, Cape Verde, Cayman Islands, Central African Republic, Chad, Chile, China, Christmas Island, Clipperton Island, Cocos (Keeling) Islands, Colombia, Comoros, Congo, Democratic Republic of the, Congo, Republic of the, Cook Islands, Coral Sea Islands, Costa Rica, Cote d'Ivoire, Croatia, Cuba, Cyprus, Czech Republic


D
Denmark, Djibouti, Dominica, Dominican Republic


E
East Timor, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Europa Island


F
Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas), Faroe Islands, Fiji, Finland, France, French Guiana, French Polynesia, French Southern and Antarctic Lands


G
Gabon, Gambia, The, Gaza Strip, Georgia, Germany, Ghana, Gibraltar, Glorioso Islands, Greece, Greenland, Grenada, Guadeloupe, Guam, Guatemala, Guernsey, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Guyana


H
Haiti, Heard Island and McDonald Islands, Holy See (Vatican City), Honduras, Hong Kong, Howland Island, Hungary


I
Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Israel, Italy


J
Jamaica, Jan Mayen, Japan, Jarvis Island, Jersey, Johnston Atoll, Jordan, Juan de Nova Island


K
Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kingman Reef, Kiribati, Korea, North, Korea, South, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan


L
Laos, Latvia, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg


M
Macau, Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Malta, Man, Isle of, Marshall Islands, Martinique, Mauritania, Mauritius, Mayotte, Mexico, Micronesia, Federated States of, Midway Islands, Moldova, Monaco, Mongolia, Montserrat, Morocco, Mozambique


N
Namibia, Nauru, Navassa Island, Nepal, Netherlands, Netherlands Antilles, New Caledonia, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Niger, Nigeria, Niue, Norfolk Island, Northern Mariana Islands, Norway


O
Oman


P
Pakistan, Palau, Palmyra Atoll, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paracel Islands, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Pitcairn Islands, Poland, Portugal, Puerto Rico


Q
Qatar


R
Reunion, Romania, Russia, Rwanda


S
Saint Helena, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Pierre and Miquelon, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, San Marino, Sao Tome and Principe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia and Montenegro, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands, Spain, Spratly Islands, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Svalbard, Swaziland, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria


T
Taiwan, Tajikistan, Tanzania, Thailand, Togo, Tokelau, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tromelin Island, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Turks and Caicos Islands, Tuvalu


U
Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, United States, Uruguay, Uzbekistan


V
Vanuatu, Venezuela, Vietnam, Virgin Islands


W
Wake Island, Wallis and Futuna, West Bank, Western Sahara


Y
Yemen


Z
Zambia, Zimbabwe



and yes I am aware that the US is on that list.



// thanks to http://travel.new-frontier.info/List_of_countries for the list
  • Cae
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Post 3+ Months Ago

and how many of those countries openly support, fund and protect the terrorists within their borders? each of those countries has an obligation to the rest of the world to contain the terrorism within their respective borders...

for those countries which do indeed support and harbor terrorists, it is the job of the rest of the world to see that something is done about it. now dont give me any of that crap about how 'that is their culture' i dont give a sh*t if its their culture or not, they have no right to kill anybody over whatever their personal beliefes may be.

it is not the job of the United States to be the worlds police force... each country on this planet has to be responsible for the wellbeing of the rest of humanity... and by letting Saddam be, you would in essance be saying that terror is a legitimate weapon to accomplish your goals... i pray to god that none of you believe that.
  • IH8Purple
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Post 3+ Months Ago

where the hell did that come from? I thought we dropped the old argument.


I never said these countries HARBORED terrorists, I said that contained terrorists. including the US.

I am not saying that terror is a legitamet means for anything. and I can't stand you pushing me around saying I want these people to die.

these countries need to be changed. but who the hell is the United State to change them!?! you can't just walk into a country flip them on their ass and leave. this change is not instant, and if you make it instant, you stand a chance of pernemently destroying there lives

YOU NEED TO GIVE THESE THINGS TIME.

yes they do have to change, much as the US and every other god damn country, but that does not mean it has to be done overnight.

people have been living there lives a certain way for generations you cannot expect and overnight, slap in the face, change. you need to give these people the means to change, the personal protection they need to be safe from people trying to stop this change from occurring, and most of all, they cannot be FORCED into these changes.

I am not saying that no one in Iraq wants these changes, but I am saying that not everyone does want them. and if you want these changes to happen you need to give it time.



And don't EVER accuse me of approving death as a means or an end.
  • Vladdrac
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Post 3+ Months Ago

speaking of terrorism.....................someone sure Hijacked this thread
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Vladdrac wrote:
speaking of terrorism.....................someone sure Hijacked this thread




soon will be :lol:
  • Cae
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Post 3+ Months Ago

the US shouldnt change them, its not our place, it is the UNs job... that is why i dont think we should have gone in without them...

and im sorry if i seemed like i was pushing you around IH8Purple, maybe i was, that was not my intention, however in my mind it just seems hipocritical to belive that Saddam is a horrible man, and yet still allow him to remain in power...

Quote:
speaking of terrorism.....................someone sure Hijacked this thread

your right, im dropping it, IH8Purple, you have a right to your opinion, so does grinch, so do i, i have said my piece, and will now say no more, it is obvious this is never going to be resolved, lets just end it everyone...
  • IH8Purple
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Calendae wrote:
to belive that Saddam is a horrible man, and yet still allow him to remain in power...


hey the US put him there, I sure didn't.

besides, the leader is just one part of the problem.

anyways, were both stuburn as mules and this clashing isn't going to do any good
  • Cae
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Post 3+ Months Ago

*offers hand to IH8Purple* peace?
  • IH8Purple
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Post 3+ Months Ago

done.

I've wasted enough time on this thread,
if the rest of you wanna keep yelling at each other,
be my guest
  • grinch2171
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I am done as well. Not a bad debate though now that I reread it. Opinion is a nice thing to have but for some reason opinion leads to arguments and bad blood. I've been watching one on religion and politics on another forum I belong to and both have gone way out of control. At least we can agree to disagree.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

IH8Purple wrote:
done.

I've wasted enough time on this thread,
if the rest of you wanna keep yelling at each other,
be my guest


Agree with u.

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