These scientists are crazy...

  • casablanca
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Post 3+ Months Ago

... or rather the critics: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080628/ap_ ... y_collider
Quote:
Critics fear the Large Hadron Collider could exceed physicists' wildest conjectures: Will it spawn a black hole that could swallow Earth? Or spit out particles that could turn the planet into a hot dead clump?
  • joebert
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Well in any event I think whatever happened would occur soo quickly we'd not have time to realize it did.

So theoreticly there's actually no way anything could possibly go wrong if there's instantly nobody around to realize it did.
  • casablanca
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Post 3+ Months Ago

joebert wrote:
So theoreticly there's actually no way anything could possibly go wrong if there's instantly nobody around to realize it did.

:D Lol, what makes you think it'll happen so quickly? They're planning test runs in August, and I hope it doesn't "happen" right then - we wouldn't even have a chance to know what happened.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

casablanca, I think you got sucked in by the journalist. That's a writing tactic to capture readers attention. It can't just go on and on about theory and how safe it can be. It wants to be read.

The scientists I think are smart and reliable enough to run the project.
  • casablanca
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George L. wrote:
The scientists I think are smart and reliable enough to run the project.

Of course they are... we're just having some fun with the critics' views, that's all!
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
what makes you think it'll happen so quickly?


Nuclear bombs.

I'm guessing if light can't escape a black hole, if a black hole were to form on earth it would be instantaniously & imploding a planet or at least as much of the planet as a man-made black hole could contain shouldn't take long at all.

Of course there's part of me who thinks there's going to be this dramatic countdown, followed by hundreds of people asking "Is it on yet ?" a minute after it's finished.
  • celandine
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Personally I can't wait to see what the hadron collider comes up with. I'm pretty sure it won't blow us all to kingdom come, but I do hope it manages to find what it's looking for (the famous 'God's Particle', or Higgs boson as it is properly referred to).

My fear is it turns up nuthin.

wait and see I guess...
  • spork
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Post 3+ Months Ago

They'll probably just find some old peanut butter and a left sock.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Yay, the Left Sock!! My Drawer Full of Husband's Right Socks is trembling in anticipation :D
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Post 3+ Months Ago

From my feeble-minded understanding of physics I think that any micro black holes created would evaporate within 100th of a quadrillionth of a second (or so). This is so short a time span that they would be gone before reaching a detector at the LHC, although they would leave behind some tell-tale signs that could be detected. For them to be stable requires that the idea of Hawking radiation be false (that is, black hole evaporation does not happen) and for there to exist large extra dimensions to the Universe.

If a stable micro black hole was produced (bearing in mind the above conditions) it would likely zip off at near lightspeed into space or fly straight through the earth and out the other side. If it was lucky, it might even absorb some of the energy or mass from an atomic nucleus or two. Since gravity is so very weak and the micro balck hole so tiny, then it would have little ability to absorb anything - their gravitational power woulld be nearly non-existant. You could have a plate of them breakfast without any ill effects.

I also read recently that a federal court in Hawaii is hearing a case to prevent the LHC from carrying out such experiments. The guys that brought the case also tried this before with a collider at Brookhaven, NY.

The other scenario of destruction involves the production of so-called "strange matter". I don't really understand what it is or the arguments as to why it is not a danger at the LHC. To my mind, the arguments seem to go along the lines of: "we've never seen it elsewhere in the universe before, so it probably doesn't exist".

Then you've got instabilities of the vacuum and magnetic monopoles to worry about too.

I trust the experts.




I find the whole thing fascinating. Looking at pictures of the equipment installed at CERN boggles the mind:


Image
  • celandine
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Post 3+ Months Ago

zwirko, I think your 'feeble-minded' understanding of physics sounds pretty good to me :D That was sort of the way I understood things... whatever they manage to create in there, they will have to hunt for traces of it after it has evaporated to prove they even achieved anything.

and I absolutely love the idea of having a plate of mini-black holes for breakfast!! Crunchy nut cornflakes just don't seem satisfying any more..... :D
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Zwirko wrote:
I find the whole thing fascinating. Looking at pictures of the equipment installed at CERN boggles the mind:


Image


Oh! It's a Flux Capacitor. :lol:
  • joebert
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Something tells me black-holes for breakfast would just leave you hungrier than you were. :scratchhead:
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Great Scott! Pass the Gravichex!
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Earth would be fine quit worrying
  • righteous_trespasser
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
The collider basically consists of a ring of supercooled magnets 17 miles in circumference

Wow ... sounds very cool ... I want to see it ...
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Stop worying, or you afraid of dying? Anyway if the black hole swallows the earth there would no one to miss you and I hope we will go to the better world)))
  • spork
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I wonder how many people are waiting for a black hole to consume the earth simply because it would be cool to blog about.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Are we going to blog in heaven or hell?
  • celandine
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Post 3+ Months Ago

depends on the person I suppose.........

anyways I imagine heaven is dead boring, all the fun people will be in hell :D at least if god is strict about enforcing all the pedantic little bible rules..... only the biggest squares will end up in heaven.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Looks like this thing goes live September 10th.

September 10th ?

Way to ease everyones' fears about this thing causing the earth to implode, great timing. They couldn't do it on say, the 12th ?
  • kc0tma
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Yeah September 11th is a taboo day in the US, but get over it. Yes, bad *plum* happened that day in 2001, but every other September 11th is just the same as April 23rd or June 5th or November 14th or any other day.

//I hate symbolism and holidays and everything
//sorry if I made anyone mad, this has been the worst freaking week of my life
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Post 3+ Months Ago

If they find traces of Black Hole creation in the LHC, it will be a huge step towards proving the experimental validity of String theory along with Higgs field, super symmetry, Brane world, 11 dimensions and what not! That may also mean I will know what the ultimate theory of everything is before dying. Just imagine, knowing what the reality is made of!
  • celandine
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Post 3+ Months Ago

yeah, but something tells me it won't be that simple... from what I understand, no premise of the string theory has been empirically proven yet - it's all up in the air.... and lots of people are already quite doubtful about spring theory as the final grand unified theory of 'life, the universe and everything'. I'm no physicist, but some inner hunch tells me they're right.....

heh wait and see I guess :D
  • quantumcloud
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I agree with you Celandine that we must wait and see. But the way you described the status of String theory is kind of an understatement considering the power and beauty of the theory. :) I feel that some more qualifiers are needed when we discuss the experimental worth of String Theory!

To start with, currently String theory is the one and only serious candidate for the TOE. It is little misleading to only say that "no premise of the string theory has been empirically proven yet". A lot of predictions of string theory match the experimental data which is why some of the most genius physicists of our age are spending so much time on it. The most significant of which is the existence of Gravity itself. String theory is the only Quantum theory of Gravity; a successful union of quantum mechanics and GTR for the 1st time ever. Other features of the universe like the the matter particle family structures, messenger particles, spins, gauge symmetry, symmetry breaking, equivalence principle etc. also emerged out of String theory naturally and are already proven experimentally. The problem is that all of these were already discovered before String theory came into the picture. So we need a unique prediction by String theory that can be empirically proven.

However, to put matters into perspective: Quantumc Mechanics, today the most number of times experimentally proven theory, took 30 years for its logical structure to be worked out and another 20 years to incorporate special relativity into it. And Quantum Mechanics could make direct contact with experimental results even when it was only partially formulated. Whereas even 5/6 years ago it was thought that using today's technology we would need an accelerator the size of the galaxy to detect individual strings. Also the approximate equations that string theorists currently use are not powerful enough to work out the resulting physics fully for any given choice of Calabi-Yau shape. The good news is that after the 2nd superstring revolution some brilliant insights have suggested that the most interesting feature of String theory, the existence of extra dimensions, may be possible to prove much earlier than previously thought. If these insights are correct, the LHC can do the job. If the tiny black holes and new particles do originate inside LHC and we find the traces, that will prove supersymmetry and probably provide the 1st unique experimental confirmation of String theory predictions. This would also mean that the extra dimensions can be as large as 1/10th of a mm! The reason we cannot see them is not because of their planck sizes but because the 3 non-gravitational forces we use to probe the universe is unable to detect or penetrate the extra dimensions. Only Gravity can! And since gravity is so weak, we cannot use it effectively to look for the extra dimensions with our current technologies.

What can be the most interesting though, IMO, is that this could also prove that we are living inside a Braneworld; our familiar 4 dimensional space-time would be just the history of a three brane through time! Fascinating stuff. :)
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Wouldn't a "Unified Theory of Everything" be scientific proof of what Christianity is based on ? :scratchhead:
  • quantumcloud
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Post 3+ Months Ago

joebert wrote:
Wouldn't a "Unified Theory of Everything" be scientific proof of what Christianity is based on ? :scratchhead:


I can't imagine what that could be.

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