What use is flash?

Ok so flash is cool, there's no disputing that, but how useful is it really?

I've seen a lot of sites that use it just to make little squiggly things, the only purpose of which is to distract and annoy me (normally accompanied by a 20 second load screen, grrr). I've seen navigational elements that have no benefit over normal links, other than they move a bit (whilst doubling the filesize) and (my favourite) the flash "intro header" which doesn't completely load until after I've finished reading the content of the site

I guess the thing that annoys me most about flash is that most of the time it's done badly, and a lot of people seem to use it to detract from the glaringly obvious lack of anything useful on their site. I know we have some really good flash designers here, along with some bad ones lol, and I don't mean any disrespect to you guys. But, to be honest, is there any non-trivial application where flash is needed?

*stands back and waits for the hail of abuse from flash-lovers

//I've put this here because it's a mixture of web design and flash and seems more like a general discussion thing to me than anything else. But move it if you see fit mods.

well, i have a small flash header on my site
because it is easily updateable

and the fact that it is only 2kb

Have you taken the time to check out most of the links to flash sites listed in this post:

http://www.ozzu.com/flash-forum/which-the-best-flash-site-ever-t371.html

Because by the way I'm reading your post, it doesn't seem you have.

If you're not on broadband your experience with flash sites is going to be significantly less enjoyable than those who are due to download times, but a well done flash site is worth the wait in most cases.

Try this one for starters if you haven't seen it yet, then check the othres in the above link. Most of those should give you a better appreciation for welldone flash.
http://2advanced.com/

while I find this to be your strict opinion, it sounds to me like you have
only ever experienced "bad flash" and never been given any education
on it. I trul think that most people that bash flash, have no idea what it
really does or can do. Truthfully, flash is one of the most pwerful
programs out there right now. It has the capability of becoming the
future of the web, but as you say it takes forever to load, or really has
no point. This is what I mean by "bad flash."

Flash is useful in the regard that it can severly reduce the amount of on
page scripting to produce a nav or graphic or eve the entire site. The
best example I can give is a site I made. I made the entire site in html
and flash because the client wanted both options. The flash site was a
total of 260kb, where the html site was over 700kb total.

I've said this many times -- bad designers make bad flash and THAT is
what has given flash such a bad rep. Load times are slow? that's
because the designer had no idea how to optimize? what about large,
hi-res images? same thing...and actually flash's compression is better
than Adobe Image Ready or Save for web.

The application of flash with databases is extremely powerful, and is
becming muc more widely used. Both on the web and in company
intranet's and applications and programs.

This is precicely what I mean. Take a look through the thread atno gave
you for some of the "the best flash sites" and see what good designing
in flash is (for the most part IMO).

There are SO MANY good uses of flash, but unfortunately not that many
people (even today with broadband) really have been given enough
good experiences with "good flash." I think you should read through the
thread atno posted, and take some time to appreciate "good flash"
before you really form your opinion.

I have experienced good flash, including your own, I know your site loads nice and quick and IMHO is a shining example to everyone aiming at flash development.

I did go have a look at those other sites before posting. I am on broadband and still found them pretty bandwidth intensive. The thing is, those sites are suitable for showing off flash and animation skills, but not for conveying information, which is IMO kind of the point of the internet, and the main purpose of most sites out there. I appreciate that you can reduce filesize by loading just the content of pages into a textbox thing and not reloading the main page. However, if you structure your html well, you are talking about 2kB (maybe 3 <b>maximum</b>) for markup on each page (excluding the content), as all of your layout (images & css) should be cached.

again it all comes down to optimising - most flash designer design badly, most html designers design badly. Both annoy me; but flash more so, because I always get the impression that bad flash designers are so proud of their 2MB monster sites, that really don't do anything special.

I guess this really is about bad flash (I was looking at some <b>really</b> bad flash this morning, which probably sparked of the question ). However, I think you will struggle to convince me that the benefits of flash outweigh the downsides.


This question still stands though:
Has anyone got a non-trivial application that is more suited to flash than any other medium?

// lol I just thought that presentations (powerpoint style) probably answer that question, but has anyone else got any more?

What I'd like to see is a flash website that loads in 0.7 seconds instead of the regular 10-30 seconds, because this is positively possible in html with css.

The only flash I've ever seen that I felt had a use was made for entertainment purposes such as http://www.joecartoon.com and http://www.newsgrounds.com.

i think flash is 'cool'

it is the one app that works on the web, and allows webdesigners to make movable graphics, text, multimedia presentations and all the bells and whistles physically possible without installing or downloading a single .exe file onto a computer.

there are sites which contain huge files, like http://www.kigot.com . that is mainly because they have exported .avi files into flash, for the 3d work.

no doubt the site is amazing, but even i agree, the load time is rediculas.

People like to use flash, because it is different, and flash technology may not be new, but you can view a normal static site, or you can view a site that is interactive, moves and seems more appealing. Maybe not eveyones cup'o'tea, but look good.

bad flash IMO is a website that is meaningless, preloaders i can live with...as long as they dont say "loading" with no indication as to when it is going to end and it takes all day lol.
like, you will enter the site, and find lots of movement, finally after the intro and other crap that is going on, you get a whole load of nothing.

well, thats what i think
flash gives a webdesigner and website something dynamic, and no longer static like html

i am sure flash is in the minority to html/php/css, so a flash site is much more unique

thats just what i think

nucleo, do you remember when Mr Blobby released a single in the uk? That had novelty value - knocked Meatloaf out of the number one spot.

I hope to god that that you are wrong about flash only being good because it is cool and different, for the sake of the good flash developers out there.

Movement on an informative site is not a positive, I'm sure that more people would find it distracting rather than useful, thus devaluing the content.

Plus it's still trivial

There are a lot of flash sites that look amazing, and there are a lot that look like "garbage." But that is with the same with anything else, there are a lot of good HTML web pages, and a lot of bad ones...

I really hated going to flash sites on my other computer, because it was a slow computer, and it was like watching a slide show. Now that I have a nice computer flash looks really good.

I also like it when sites have an intro page with different options, like a smaller version for slow connection, just an html version, etc.

Also some sites with long transitions aren't that great, because if I want to keep going back to that site, I don't want to see the same 5 sec animation every time I switch betweeen pages, It looks nive the first few time, but not all the time.

u said what is the use of flash?...
i think it is simply to produce information on a different level, thats what i meant

and it lets you make kick-aumsum sigs

Good Flash with a definite purpose:

http://www.beksinski.pl/

To cover the comment about wanting to see a really good flash page that loads in less than 7 seconds? That's all the time this page takes to load 100% on broadband. That's not to say that the animation wasn't over, but the file was loaded.

The purpose -- this design is for an artist. And after viewing the artists work, I have to say the Flash design showcases it flawlessly. I would not have known of this artist if I had not seen it on a "best of" flash sites place. And I am defintely glad to have found it, because I love his elegent work. And I would never have viewed his work if it wasn't for this very unique flash design.

This site also uses one of the most artistic navigation methods I have ever seen. It's simply beautiful.

wow.... That site and the artists work is just amazing. the flash site looks really nice, it loaded very fast, the transitions were good, the navigation buttons were very unique, and then the paintings, and drawings are just amazing... I love the colours in the painting and the style. Thanks for posting that site ATNO

edit: I wish the paintings were bigger, so I could use them as a backgound or something.

Here is where I found it - http://www.bestflashanimationsite.com/archive/

I'll leave it up to those who want to to explore, but there is indeed some rather outstanding work all through that site.

wow, looking at some of those pieces of art, I may have found a new hobby