your son is GAY???

  • lostinbeta
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Prince@bood wrote:
you see, it's up to the parents wether to make there son guy or not, and that would be according to the atmosphere of wich is the son living in. but lets not go away from the qwestion, if my son would become a gey, then i'll just have to live with it and love him as my son because i know its my fault.


You see pretty confident that how parents raise their kids decide if they are gay or not. But considering cause has not ever been proven it's all speculation. You can blame yourself all you want, but honestly that makes no sense to me.
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  • JrzyCrim
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I don't have a son so I can't really say how I would react. I'd probably be caught 'off guard'. I would only hope that I'd be reasonable enough not to freak out. I don't believe I would. I'd probably be uncomfortable around people I know didn't appove of it but that's my problem and not my 'son's.

Personally, I don't have a problem with homosexualality. I have 2 friends that are gay. One female, one male. I don't think it's really stupid as far as reproduction goes. Sure, if we were mindless beasts and the majority of the population were gay, then we might have a problem. It's not contagious, you know. Gay couples have children via artificial insemination/surrogate mothers. Adoption is another way. Of course, this doesn't really have anything to do with reproduction, but it is great that more couples are available to adopt children.

Besides, I think the population growth could stand to be curtailed somewhat.

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Post 3+ Months Ago

lostinbeta wrote:
BlueHat wrote:
read this


Please tell me this post is a joke. Even if it is, it's not at all funny. Rather, incredibly immature. :roll:



I was just making small research on the web and this what i found :lol: :lol:

but it still doesn't have to be immature. :wink:
  • rtm223
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I am curious as to people's view on the religious argument on homosexuality. I have heard some people say that the bible 'clearly states' that homosexuality is wrong, and then also that there is nothing clear, only interpretation, or misinterpretation either way? Both views coming from scholars of the bible!
I personally am an aetheist, despite having been brought up as a christian, and my opinion is:
if god, heaven and hell exist, there is something significantly wrong with everything if a person spends their whole life helping others and making the lives of others better, and yet will go to hell, eternally damned, because they took part in a same-sex relationship, completely mutual etc. Can you honestly say that that person was a BAD, or even EVIL, person? That they deserve to go to hell? Does this not seem a little shallow or petty to anyone?
As for the nature argument (that it goes against nature etc). So does driving cars and creating complete imbalance with our surrounding environment and a million and one other things that humans do. I thought we had evolved beyond the instinctive level where procreation is the only meaning of life?
Basically, I'm saying that how can you criticize a gay person for being gay, when they have harmed no-one, and done nothing that could be argued, by rational and logical argument, to be wrong? How different is gay person to a straight person, in real ways that really make a difference to anyone else? At one time black people were seen as being very different - hopefully most people here would laugh at how ridiculous that is?
There is far to much intolerance in the world, and as far as I can see, intolerance and hatred are some of the most evil things in this world.

BTW my answer is support him, in case you couldn't tell!!
Sorry if i repeated what people have already said - I skimmed this post.
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I found this topic while searching on google for gay fonts, of all things (don't ask), and felt compelled to register and reply. I am gay, and when I came out, both of my parents (and my sisters too, for that matter), were completely accepting. My partner and I had a union ceremony a year ago, and all of my immediate family was there. My mom and dad had gone through a biter divorce and hadn't seen each other for years, but they got along for the duration of the ceremony and even walked me down the isle together (one on each side). My boss and another coworker were also present. I don't think it get's much better than that, but I would expect any parent, if they truly love their children, to at least accept them as they are and do everything they can to make them feel loved and welcome in this world, especially if they're still a teenager - the suicide rate among gay teens is twice that of straight teens (I know of one case where a mother told the son he might as well be dead, leading him to try to take her up on the offer). That is all that really matters. If you take away that safety net from someone, especially from someone still young with an evolving personality, you may not ever be able to forgive yourself for the consequences.

On the issue of religion, it wasn't so long ago that people were being burned at the stake for sugesting that the sun was the center of the solar system instead of the earth. Religion has been wrong _FAR_ more times than it has been right. We have come up with far better means of guiding morality and ethics in our society than fear of damnation - it's high time we learned to base our actions in logic and respect for the rights of others. If we as a society are incapable of successfully doing that then I suggest the human race should be written off as a failure right now.

As for gay mariage, following from the above, this issue is a clear no-brainer. Government has no business getting involved in the religious aspects of marriage. Marriage as recognized by the state should be simply a civil contract between two individuals conferring upon them all the rights and responsibilities relevant to their interaction with the government and secular society at large. That should be completely seperate from marriage as defined by the church and should require a completely seperate ceremony (as it does in Europe). If a couple chooses to have a religious ceremony in addition to the civil contract, that is their choice, but the government must not interfere with that in any way (thus, those churches who wish to deny gays the right to marry in their church are free to do so). That is the only logical application of the concept of the seperation of church and state to this issue. Anyting less than that is trampling on someone's rights, be it the church's or the individual's.

Needless to say, I am extremely pleased to see the situation in Masachusetts developing as it is, not because I wish to run up there and take part, but because it will ultimately completely nullify the argument against gay marriage, not through rhetoric which is all we've ha until now, but through rock solid example. Nothing can be done to stop those mariages until 2006 at the earliest, so the good straight people of Massachusetts will have plenty of time to see how utterly irelevant all this is to them. The "institution" of mariage (such as it is in a country where most marriages end in divorce within ten or fifteen years) will not in any way be damaged by this, no more so than it was by the striking down of miscegenation laws fifty years ago. The opposition will fade into the background now as then, and it will very quickly become a non-issue.

Anyway, that's enough of a disertation for one day, I think. If you would like to read more of my thoughts on this subject, please check out my blog, Speaking Freely:

http://www.webolutionary.com/freedom



BTW, here's a site I put up with pictures and the order of service from my union ceremony:

http://www.out-rageous.com/union

(yes, I actually am a webmaster, among other things)
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Congratulations on you and your partners union ceremony Sean.

I hope to have one in the future when I find "the one" as well.

And I too am pleased about the MA situation. I am hoping it will show people that it won't really effect anything as serverly as they are thinking. It seems a lot of people think it will catastrophically change the world in a negative way. Which is rubbish.
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funny thing. I just thought about this question a few days ago.
coincidence.

If my son is gay, there is nothing i can do. Just hope he will be happy and freakin successful like versace or something like that.

but before he turns gay, I will try to steer my son away frmo gay influences like (reputed gay schools, sissy friends, etc)

:wink:
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Wow, I can't even count the amount of stereotypes in that post on both of my hands.
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LOL

You can't steer someone away from being gay. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Nor do all gay men become fashion designers. ;) I think you might be surprised to know that I know gay lawyers, real estate brokers, physicists, undertakers, a tugboat captain, a customer service rep at the company in which I work, and more. I also know quite a few gay men who are anything but sissies (you'd never guess in a million years that they were gay). ;)
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Post 3+ Months Ago

My thoughts exactly Sean.
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btw, i've recently read that in a zoo, two male penguins were having a relationship(not just friends :P) and did whatever a male penguin would do with a female one. They also took a rock and act as if it was an egg! The people in charge there in the zoo, gave them eventually an egg to bring up.
That raised a lot of controversies 'cause those who supported the idea that being gay is against the nature and blah blah lost points(they still had another reason, though!).

Anyway, our ancestors(at least ancient Greek people), with the great culture etc etc kept their women in home and had relationships with men(not just one, ever heard of orgies? :))... Actually, they did it for different reason(underestimated women) but they still did it :P
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Quote:
Anyway, our ancestors(at least ancient Greek people), with the great culture etc etc kept their women in home and had relationships with men(not just one, ever heard of orgies?

Firstly the orgies wern't just men - they were mixed groups. Secondly, you have <b>no idea</b> about the "great civilisation" of the greeks and the romans, do you? Their civilisation was based upon war, slavery, rape, disgraceful economics, and a complete lack of respect for morality and human rights. Their idea of entertainmnt was the rape of slave women, by animals, on stage. The were far from civilised. Totally off-topic but everyone seems to think that just because ancient people had big buildings and philosiphy this makes them altruistic. They weren't.



Congrats to you sean, I had a look at you photos. I couldn't help thinking how many narrow-minded people would be totally shocked that it was just like a "normal" wedding. I agree with everything that has been said here, the problem is that humans are naturally xenophobic. Once everyone (who hasn't already :roll: ) gets over the fact that gay people are the same as everyone else, I'm sure they will find a new sub-group of humanity to suppress. The only time this will stop is if we find some aliens to start throwing our hate upon, until eventually we realise that they were the same all along. Maybe humanity, for the most part, <b>is</b> a failure...
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Post 3+ Months Ago

will try to steer . What i meant was to get him out of places with gays. ie. my high school has become a gay place in recent years. :lol:

so, things like that.. means within contrl of coz.
I must also agree that at times, there's ntohing you can do about yr son turning gay..

Gays have good fashion sense. That's why you can find a lot of gays in designing and hairdressing. :D
Dont you think so ?


And that's why there is a gay show targetting straight guys these days..
wow. their tastes aer so good! I quite like the show.
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you can also find straight guys in design and hairdressing.

And the only reason a particular place might apparently have a higher percentage of gay people is because the community is more open about it.

IE: there is one school where if you are openly gay you get bullied etc, another school where everyone is cool about it.

In the second school, will you have more gay people? No. what you will have is more <b>openly gay</b> people though. Just because someone isn't open about it doesn't mean that they are not gay. By sending your son to a school where homosexuality is actively oppressed, you do not reduce his chances of being gay. What you do is reduce his chances of being gay AND happy.

If someone is gay they will be. The best you can do is to avoid all bigotry when you bring up your child, do not put stereotypes and discrimination in their minds, and then they will grow up to be happy with themselves. If the happiness of your children is not more important to you than your own pride then there is something wrong.
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madmonk: Your son won't "turn" gay by being around gay people. Either your son is gay or he isn't... pretty simple if you ask me.

And no, not all gay people have good fashion sense. I wouldn't know fashion if it slapped me in the face. And I certainly have the most unoriginal hairstyle (spiked).

You need to seperate your facts and your stereotypes of gay people. They are regular people, with their own individual abilities and skills, their own personalities, etc. It just so happens that probably the most gay people you have seen/met/heard of were in fashion or hair design. That doesn't mean they all are.

[edit]
Oh, and removing your son from an environment where gay people exist is teaching him to avoid/hate them IMO. If you shelter yourself from all kinds of people, you will never understand that no matter what a person is still just a person.... race, religion, gender, sexual preference.... none of that should matter to anyone else.
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lostinbeta wrote:

And no, not all gay people have good fashion sense.



That is so true, but let's please add straight folks in there too. In fact, let's add a bunch of fashion designers. Sometimes I look at what is called "fashion" and I just want to fall over laughing.

I'll take my jeans, T-shirts, and tennis shoes any day of the week over something that would cost me half a grand and make me look like a circus clown.
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Well each one of us have different believes and thoughts but some thought are universaliazed which are based on religion.

Most religion people don't believe on this behavior.

I see that this action is only for human satisfaction nothing else.

But I am sure that with lesbian and gays the society wouldn't benefit from it.

I am a person who believes in God and God has created human in two different type men and women otherwise its human creation.
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BlueHat wrote:
Well each one of us have different believes and thoughts but some thought are universaliazed which are based on religion.

Some people's beliefs are based on sheer ignorance. To lump any group of people together and say "they're all the same" is ignorant. Stereotyping has nothing to do with religion, and I'm not for one second critisising anyone's beliefs.

Quote:
I see that this action is only for human satisfaction nothing else.

So is heterosexual sex using contraception. Is that then just as wrong as gay sex, because if you are not trying to create a baby then it is wrong? There are a million and one things that humans do just for our satisfaction, are all of those wrong too?

Quote:
But I am sure that with lesbian and gays the society wouldn't benefit from it.

The homosexual comunity causes no detriment to society either. Society would probably benefit by stopping stupid people, people with heredetary diseases, people with any other genetic "defect" from breeding. That way we can have a more intellegent, healthier society. Just because the whole would benefit does not make something right, and the reverse does not make something wrong.

Maybe I missed something, but I thought the most basic message that jesus brought to the world was temperence, and not judging others?

and as sean said, religion <i>has</i> got things wrong more often than right.... and more often than not right and wrong are not set in stone.



BTW sean, what is a "gay font", because I'm really curious about that one.
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So can u explain why does religion not allow gay and lesbians marriage. U want to tell me that religion has panned this just without any reasons.
and what a Coincidence that most of the religion share the same rule.

but bc human never like to be controlled by others, Thats way we have rape, robberies, killing, war and ....etc

for every cause there is a reason.

one god created human he created first a man and women not man and a man??

Quote:
So is heterosexual sex using contraception. Is that then just as wrong as gay sex, because if you are not trying to create a baby then it is wrong? There are a million and one things that humans do just for our satisfaction, are all of those wrong too?


that does not make Gay behavior accepted. Sure there are many satisfaction that human do which are wrong, but who has the power to stop them.

Quote:
and as sean said, religion has got things wrong more often than right.... and more often than not right and wrong are not set in stone.


That will depend on how u see ur religion.. There are many things that don't have an answer.
why men cant get pregnant.. but scientist are trying to making it happen...hehe.

On the other hand when gay adopt a child, how would the two "fathers" explain to the child what is the differences between the mother and the father, so that means we will have to come up with a third part of education which only concern gays and lesbians.

Child should be grown up with normal parents(father and mother).
For me I don't care what gays do, I see that the problem is our children future.

Also religion has not allowed rapping, so why we don't allow it. U might say here that rape cause harm, and i can say that gays behavior harm my children view of what is life and gender.

I would say here that gays and lesbian destroy the religion rules and human respects to the gender.
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rtm223 wrote:
BTW sean, what is a "gay font", because I'm really curious about that one.
Do a search on google for a font called groupsex (all one word), and then imagine a gay version of that. Or a font of muscled men in various positions to form the letters. I need to do a poster for a weekly drag show being named "Hump Daze".
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BlueHat wrote:
I hope this wont be very weird,

what would u do if ur son is GAY??


*grins -- don't forget Bluehat, you started the topic. So the replies you get shouldn't come as too much of a shock. I already voiced my opinion once rather clearly if I recall. However, your statement about "most religion people don't believe on this behavior" doesn't seem valid to me. I'm aware of a few Catholic priests that could probably nullify that as invalid pretty readily. Besides, even if one wasn't of the pursuasion to be gay, I'd be willing to place a bet that they probably gave it a thought or two once or twice in their lifetime.

To me the missing statement to that logic is "Most religions don't believe in this behavior. Religious people hold fast to their religious beliefs, therefore, most religious people don't believe on this behavior".

However much that version of the statement appears to be slightly more valid logic, it is still invalid given that neither of the two premises are proven true.

Besides, belief doesn't come into play here. In theory you should believe in it, because it exists. You can choose not to believe in it, but then you are denying reality. Now if we use the statement "most religious people don't agree with this behavior", you may be able to find a way to prove the validity of that, albeit unlikely. It is still a statement of opinion vs. a statement of logic unless you can prove the premise.
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BlueHat wrote:
So can u explain why does religion not allow gay and lesbians marriage. U want to tell me that religion has panned this just without any reasons.
and what a Coincidence that most of the religion share the same rule.

Not really, the "rules" were all instigated in a completely different time and culture to our own. A culture where women were second rate citizens and the world and way of life was completely alien to you and me. I'm sure if I asked my mum she would be able to supply me with plenty of examples of "rules" from the bible that have no relevance to the modern world.

If you are wondering about "rules" being in quotes, I'd like to reiterate my previous point that some scholars of the bible will tell you homosexuality is clearly wrong, and other scholors will tell you that there are vague references that could be interpreted in numerous different ways. Please can someone provide me with a reference that sets this in stone - book chapter and verse(s) and I'll look it up. I will also eat my own socks if you can show me something that is not open to interpretation. That should be enough insentive to get people looking.

BlueHat wrote:
but bc human never like to be controlled by others, Thats way we have rape, robberies, killing, war and ....etc
for every cause there is a reason.

I would like to point out the number of killings and wars that were (and still are) based upon religion, check out northern ireland for instance - christians killing other christians because they are "the wrong kind of christian"


BlueHat wrote:
Quote:
and as sean said, religion has got things wrong more often than right.... and more often than not right and wrong are not set in stone.


That will depend on how u see ur religion.. There are many things that don't have an answer.

Christians fed to the lions
The spanish inquisition
The crusades
the holocaust
Northern Ireland
The current "islamic" terrorist movement

All of these had some kind of religious motivation. These things were and are, wrong. You cannot deny that. This is history and fact we are talking about here, it's not open to interpretation as far as I am concerned. Religion has been the cause of many attrocities, and I don't care how you view your religion, none of that was acceptable


BlueHat wrote:
On the other hand when gay adopt a child, how would the two "fathers" explain to the child what is the differences between the mother and the father, so that means we will have to come up with a third part of education which only concern gays and lesbians.

Child should be grown up with normal parents(father and mother).
For me I don't care what gays do, I see that the problem is our children future.

Yeah I agree, to think that children might be brought up open minded is a terrnible thought...
I think a gay person has every bit of understanding as to the difference between a man and a woman, it's biology after all.

Quote:
Also religion has not allowed rapping, so why we don't allow it. U might say here that rape cause harm, and i can say that gays behavior harm my children view of what is life and gender.

I would say here that gays and lesbian destroy the religion rules and human respects to the gender.


And I would say that hiding the truth from children will cause much more harm, and will disrespect the child.

And, just as a reminder, I have my sock ready and am waiting for this reference :wink:
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Regarding children brought up by a gay couple - there is no higher incidence of homosexuality among those children than among children of straight parents. Do you need any more proof than that to understand that gayness has nothing to do with environment. ;);););)
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BlueHat: It sounds to me that you think children learn anything and everything by being spood fed it through parents and education. Children are smarter than you think, and are often aware of their surroundings even if you hide it from them. Many children of gay parents know and understand the situation their family is in. They still grow up to be who they are, not who someone makes them.
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I told myself I was going to aviod this thread, but. I. Can't. Help. It. I'm. Too. Political. AAArrrrrgggg.....

Intolerance, bigotry, prejustice... It's silly. It's pointless, and it makes the world a worse place. If you're that way because of your religion, then your religion is making the world a worse place, even if it's also done great good.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and I respect those that post here a great deal (though I've only been here a very short time, and likely have a good amount of time to earn such respect from those here). But I find intolerance and close-mindeness abhorant.

If you happen to know a gay man or woman, and for what ever reason, don't like them... fine. But painting the entire homosexual population as evil, horrible terrible people is insane. It's NO DIFFERENT than the same logic that led to black slavery and apartied (sp?), to the ethnic clensing in Bosnia, the wholesale murder of Jews by the Nazis, the genocide in Rwanda.. the list goes on and on. The idea that anyone you don't even know and have never heard of, is somehow less because they are in some way different that you are is just insane.

Just for the record, I am not homosexual. I do have a number of homosexual friends, both men and women, whose friendships I cherish because they are good people, despite sexual practices I don't happen to find interesting (ok... you know what I mean =]). What's more, my marriage and relationship to my wife is in NO WAY lessened because two men or two women are in love with each other. If anything it's strengthed.

What's the point of marriage, really, if not love? Children? That's it? I can do that without getting married. Taxes? whatever... No, the basis of marriage is love, the other stuff is ancillary, and if you don't belive that... you might think very hard before getting married... spending 30 years with someone you don't love is going to be very difficult...

*sigh*

Sorry, I get really pissed when bigotry rears it's ugly head... I wish it didn't exist.

.c
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lostinbeta wrote:
BlueHat: It sounds to me that you think children learn anything and everything by being spood fed it through parents and education. Children are smarter than you think, and are often aware of their surroundings even if you hide it from them. Many children of gay parents know and understand the situation their family is in. They still grow up to be who they are, not who someone makes them.


Nicely said lostinbeta. In addition there are some children that I would much rather see live much happier lives with some gay parents that love them with their life, rather than parents that beat the living crap out of them.
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Or even just straight parents who are poor parents (but not abusive). There are so many unqualified parents out there who should be barred from having kids for any number of reasons that it is absurd to bar a perfectly good gay couple from having them simply on the basis of their orientation.
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eek, religion appears again, :/ lol
not that i dont agree with the idea of it, but imho religion can be quite a dangerous thing if used/maniplated/taught wrongly as evidenced above.

one thing i must admit that does annoy me very much is large organised religious groups trying to force the idea that theirs is the only true way upon people, i belive that there is no one 'right' way and that people can have their own religious ideas and beliefs whilst still being as, (or indeed more) morally wholesome than other 'mainstream' members.
I think basically i like the idea of freedom of thought without people trying to tell you your going to go to hell because you dont belive in their version lol :P


as for the gay question, personally i dont have a problem with it at all, i may find some thoughts of it a little ikky simply because i dont feel those kinds of desires/feelings myself, but i have no problem with others being that way if thats how they feel, i mean if it makes them happy then that has to be good, and i can't see an honest reason why a gay couple couldnt raise a child in an equally loving way as a straight couple.
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rtm223 wrote:
Firstly the orgies wern't just men - they were mixed groups. Secondly, you have <b>no idea</b> about the "great civilisation" of the greeks and the romans, do you? Their civilisation was based upon war, slavery, rape, disgraceful economics, and a complete lack of respect for morality and human rights. Their idea of entertainmnt was the rape of slave women, by animals, on stage. The were far from civilised. Totally off-topic but everyone seems to think that just because ancient people had big buildings and philosiphy this makes them altruistic. They weren't.

I forgot to use quotes on "great culture", there's supposed to be an irony, because everyone thinks whatever was done then is right. I am aware of what was happening there more than you might think. I know that they were mixed, did I say anyware that only men used to take part? I just used an example showing the "gay nature" of ancient greeks. I should stop here, we are going nowhere.
Sorry, the subject has become a conversation around homosexuality in general, that's why I mentioned.
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Tom the Great wrote:
Would support him anyway. It's his decision to make, not mine. I would still love him, still be a father and all that stuff, the relation ship wouldn't change.

Yes i know this was posted aawhile ago, but really, its not even the KIDS decision.
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