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Total votes : 12

How do you feel about copy protected media as it applies to your rights?

Poll ended at March 4th, 2004, 9:46 pm.

  •  
    I don't care.
  •  
    CDs have copy protection?
  •  
    The industry should be able to copy protect discs.
  •  
    Heck no! They're running us over!

CD Copy Control

  • rjmthezonenet
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Post 3+ Months Ago

How do you feel about copy protected media as it applies to your rights? I don't mean how it applies with your bugged that you can't pirate a friends disc... I mean as it applies to your rights?

My new Norah Jones "Feels Like Home" CD (not as good as I hoped) is a CD Extra format disc: part CD-DA (digital audio) and part ISO 9660 format (data). However, it employs an IFPI copy control protection based on intentional format errors designed to cause problems for CD readers. The end result of a CD to CD copy should be the burner complaining about a lack of space or, roughly speaking, bottoming out.

Unfortunately, copy protection discs can break drives, may not work in some players (or worse, break some players) and violates our fair use rights. Shouldn't we be permitted to create backup copies - especially consider the industry recently acknowledged that CDs have a limited life span (and I don't mean scratches... they deteriorate).

I buy all my music legally, copy it onto my iMac and playback using iTunes (and some software that slows it down for guitar practice). If CD copy protection keeps me from doing this.. I'm gonna be pi$$ed!
  • Axe
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Post 3+ Months Ago

As far as the population in general is concerned, I think they are screwing people over. Personally, it doesn't bother me, because there's always a way around it.

When you buy a piece of software, or an audio CD, you are not buying the data or the contents of the disc. You are buying a license to use those contents for personal use (unless you run an establishment that allows public broadcasting - such as music in a pub/bar, etc).

As you said, "fair use" allows you to do what you want with it as long as you keep it to yourself. You can't steal/modify somebody's music/data and distribute it, but you can copy it (for a backup or whatever) or convert it to another medium (CD Audio to MP3, or DVD to DivX for example) for YOUR OWN PERSONAL USE (this is "fair use").

The "anti-piracy" measures (the more accurate term for "copy protection") don't do anything. As I said, there's always a way around it. Every new game that comes out for the PC has some form of copy protection built into it, and within 12hrs of that game hitting the shelves, there's a crack online disabling the game's built-in checks that you have the original CD - So the reasons for which the copy protection was implemented are now null and void.

I know many people who religiously backup any new software they buy (I do this sometimes myself too), and then lock the originals away for safe keeping, and install right from the backup (which they are legally entitled to do under the "Fair Use" section of Copyright law), but they have to spend sometimes hours searching the web to find patches for those games & software to work without the original CD. They own a license to use the game or software, yet cracking is (allegedly) illegal.

If somebody were to crack a game they have downloaded and not bought, would it be illegal? Yes it is, and damn right, so it should be!

If somebody were to crack a game that they'd bought from a store, owned a license to, and backed up onto a cheap 10c CD, would that still be illegal? According to some software companies, yes it would. Under the "Fair Use" clause of the copyright laws, no it's not - This was the primary argument in the DeCSS case if I remember correctly (when DVD encryption keys were first cracked).

Like I said, personally, if I want to use backups of my originals, and keep my originals safe, and there's some form of copyright protection, I will find a way around it. But there are many people getting screwed over, and then having to buy a new copy of a movie, or a game, or a $500 piece of software, simply because their original CD got a crack in it (even though they still own a valid license to use the software).
  • Vladdrac
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I agree with axe, although there is an encryption, there is always a way around it. When there is a way to encrypt a cd that can't be cracked, there are going to be some really mad people.
  • rjmthezonenet
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Nice post Axe.

That is one of the reasons Linux and open source software are my favourite pick. Ever have to re-install a program only to find you've lost the registration key? That happened to me with a few programs; twice with Intellisync. Keeping track of old purchases isn't easy for the unorganized! :-/

www.gnu.org wrote:
Free software is a matter of the users' freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. More precisely, it refers to four kinds of freedom, for the users of the software:

1. The freedom to run the program, for any purpose.
2. The freedom to study how the program works, and adapt it to your needs. Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
3. The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor.
4. The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole community benefits. Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
  • Cae
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Post 3+ Months Ago

if im correct, i believe that there was some law someplace that said you should legally able to make backkup copies of your cds in case something happens to it. and either way, axe is right, there will always be a way around copy-protections...
  • Nucleo
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Yes I understand...
being able to copy a cd shouldn't matter..
You go to a shop and pay damn good money for the cd and what is on it, including the liscence. So it is your cd you should be allowed to do whatever the hell you want with it.
but then you have another problem...
if this is the way things work, then the music business would be no more, people would be copying cd's for whoever they like, the warez market would boom....

there is no simple way around it
  • Axe
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Post 3+ Months Ago

With or without copy protection, it wouldn't affect warez & illegal copying. The people who distribute warez & rip CDs, DVDs for unauthorized distribution already know how to get around the 'protection' measures that are set in place.

They said Photoshop CS was "uncrackable", and it was for 2 or 3 days, they said that Sega Dreamcast discs couldn't be copied, because they said they were a special format CD (1 Gigabyte "GigaCDs") that could only be read inside the Sega Dreamcast system's CD reader, well, they got around that one too, they said the same about the XBox, PS2, and all the other proprietory game systems out there. They said the same thing about DVD discs, and console games that don't even use discs, the ones that use cartridges such as the N64, and other Nintendo systems, those games are being copied & illegally distributed.

Not putting copy protection onto discs is only going to allow people to exercise their Fair Use rights. It's not going to increase the distribution of unauthorized copies. Like I said, the people who are going to make those copies already know how to get around the anti-piracy measures. So it's not going to change a thing in that respect.

I do fully understand software, game, movie & music creators wanting to protect their property, and I'm all for that, but what they are doing right now isn't preventing illegal copying. It's simply hindering those, who have actually paid for a license, wanting to make personal backups who don't know how to circumvent the protection, in order to exercise their legal rights. Those who want to copy for illegal purposes already know how to get around it.
  • Vladdrac
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Yeah, no doubt. And also no telling how much it is costing those corporations to fund anti piracy projects, and therefore get passed onto the consumer
  • ThATKiD
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Post 3+ Months Ago

axe no offense but that was too long i didnt read it maybe later :P . As far as cd encrpytoin . . . it will be hacked. as long as it can be installed or read by my comp there outa luck


i felt bad so i went back and read it and bro the dreamcast "giga cd" sony sold for $1.13 a piece.

I think that paying $300+ dollars for office $200 for windows pro is obserd. I mean thats insane sonsidering everyone uses this. if office was $75 belive me microsft would still make money from it there would be %80 less piracy. They have to stop and take a look blame themselves for it. I mean photoshop is a soecialty tool so is auto cad and rhino still i think over priced but acceptable. but everyone with a computer uses atleast 4 microsft title two of which are $200+ .
  • Axe
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Post 3+ Months Ago

So thatkid, spend a few years developing an office product, several million dollars to pay programmers, for marketing, product packaging, advertising, etc. to release date. Then a bit more money supplying patches, and the servers & bandwidth for people to download those patches - plus the costs of electricity to power the PCs during on-going development, and the costs of the PCs themselves...

75 bucks a copy? How many hundreds of thousands of copies would they have to sell just to break even? Ok, so hundreds of thousands of people ARE using Micro$oft Office, but it's not cheap to produce software - even if doesn't work exactly as advertised ;)

Adobe Photoshop CS costs about $650 right now... Sure, it's expensive, and people moan and complain about buying it, but they're still handing over their hard-earned cash.

If you don't want to spend the money on the software, you don't have to. Download & burn Linux, and run OSS applications :)
  • rjstephens
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Post 3+ Months Ago

nah, I use windows. That's the only piece of microsoft software on my pc.

and it only cost me $130 (Australian).
  • ThATKiD
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Im not saying that it deosnt cost money Axe, but belive be they dont need to charge 300 for office pro and 200 for windows. They charge public companies such as Dell pay 1/4 that for each lisence and still microsoft makes money off them. now explain the $80 dollar diffrence between OEM and shelf items i never knew box and slightly more expensive shipping would be 80+ dollars. Now photoshop cost 600 is understandable its a program for profesionals and deos amazing things. programs such as 3d max, rhino, Auto cad, these are specialty programs that arent sold in the millions and are used for production, engineering, animation. But Windows cmon they even left back doors to watch you and cost many ppl hundred of dollars, in reformating, calling experts for help, companies with lost information. I dont know i mean i just think that all every day programs should be chaper such as nortons last time a chacked was $50 for a year subscription thats not bad considering symatec deos weekly updates and host huge ammounts of banwith and pays ppl for programing constantly.
  • Axe
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Because they don't have to advertise to get Dell to buy it. Just 30 seconds on the TV can cost a million bucks or more. A Full page ad inside the front cover of a magazine can cost 20-50 grand a shot, not to mention the 3-4 page ads that occasionally run - 50 magazines, 20 grand a piece, every month - that's a million bucks/mo just to advertise it in magazines - not to mention the mags in other countries.

They have to get back those losses.

Ok, so Linux is free, but look how many people use it in comparison to Windows. It's not that Linux is any less idiot-proof, or that it's not better. It simply doesn't have the revenue to advertise and make the public pay the way they do with Micro$oft, Adobe & other commercial companies' products.

I'm not saying that Windows is value-for-money - there's no way in hell I'd use Windows if it didn't come with the PC. I certainly wouldn't PAY for it. BUT, I can understand why they charge what they do.

Dell are also buying 100,000 copies of Windows at a time. I'm sure if you wanted to buy 100,000 copies of Windows from Micro$oft, they'd probably give you a discount too ;)
  • ThATKiD
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Post 3+ Months Ago

i know they have alot of expenses but per cd they cant say they spend more then $40 and air time isnt that expensive unless your running it during the super bowl. I mean correct me if im wrong but this past super bowl it was i belive 3 mill for a 30 seccond slot. That being the nationaly aired slots local slots wihc were few and far between werent anywere near that price. Another thing game which are also advertised and take hundred of progreammers months on end to make cost $40 - 50 theres alot of software out there that is chaper then microsoft just that none of it is office. My point is that there is no right or wrong to it if i was in there shoes i charge the same, just Im on the other side and its kinda tough when i have to spend 300 i dont have for software i need for shcool assingments because i chose to build my PC.
  • Axe
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Yeah, take programmers months on end to create, but where's the advertising?

They don't have the overheads & expenses that microsoft does.

No advertising, no extra office property purchases/rentals, no extra bills that they wouldn't have anyway for utilities, no salaries to pay, etc. All that money has to come from somewhere :)

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