New System

  • GT500Shlby
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Post 3+ Months Ago

As the days tick by and my money market grows larger I am ironing out the system I want to build. I have it down to this:

Processor: AMD Athlon 64 3000+ [Venice Core,Socket 939]
Motherboard: Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe [Socket 939, nVIDIA nForce4 SLI]
Memory: [2x] Corsair XMS 1GB (2x512) PC3200 DDR [2GB Total]
Case: Lian-Li PC-V1100B Black Aluminum Tower
Power Supply Thermaltake PurePower W0023R 560W ATX
Video Card: Asus EN6800GT GeForce 6800GT PCI-E
Hard Drives: [2x] WD Caviar SE WD2500JS 250GB SATAII
Optical: Plextor Dual Layer DVD+-r/rw PX-716A/SW

I'll then spring for the black VapoChill Light Speed.

All total it will be about $2,860.00

What do you guys/gals think?
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Post 3+ Months Ago

  • TomK
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I don't know if you'll be able to get 4 RAM modules working. I would go for 2X 1 GB sticks.
  • GT500Shlby
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Post 3+ Months Ago

The board contains 4 DDR slots. Also with the Venice and San Diego cores, AMD fixed the memory access problem. The old Athlons used to have that problem where it couldnt access 4 seperate DDR slots at PC3200.

Well it started out all the chip was able to handle was 3 slots, then it was able to access 4, but only at PC2700. As each new core was released the memory controller was improved.

I've also read many reviews of both the board and the chip where they sucessfully used all 4 banks.

If there is no speed or performance gain by using all 4 banks, then I may go for the 2x1GB. Later on, it will give me the ability to add another 2GB of memory.
  • TomK
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I thought I read something about them fixing the problem with the memory controller. Thanks for updating me on that.

Why are you going with a lower-end processor when the rest of your setup is basically the best of the best. You will most likely be severly CPU limited in most games/applications.

Two questions:
1. Where are you buying your parts from?
2. What will this computer be used for?
  • grinch2171
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Post 3+ Months Ago

How would he be severely limited with his CPU. I don't know too many games or apps that will require much more. Especially since most apps are 32 bit and he is going 64 bit. Unless he plans on doing severe graphic rendering he should be fine. The video card plus the RAM will handle any game barely affecting the CPU.

I think the system will be quite good.
  • GT500Shlby
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I'm going for "Maximum Upgradability." To keep the system on budget going for a lower-end CPU (which doesn't mean it's low quality) will yeild price savings for in the end going for an X2 down the road. Same with the SLI. Down the road I can get two high-end gaming cards that could boost the computer for another year or two.

I mostly get everything from newegg. Even with the cheapest shpping, they have a distribution center minutes from where I work. I can get stuff from Fedex the next day.

Sometimes when Newegg isn't the chapest (including shipping) I will use TigerDirect, MWave or ZipZoomFly.

I play some games with the computer, I would like the ability to play "more" games but time more often than computing power limits me from that.

Also the processir isn't a bad processor. It has the latest core for its speed and allows me to save money in the short-term for upgradability in the longterm. It's not like I'm picking a duron/semeperon type of proc with the setup, but the performance gain for the price difference doesn't quite cut it. Even more so with the VapoChill in the equation. If in a few weeks I see a price shift and I can save say $100 - $150 total, then I will spring for a San Diego 3700.

I all to often see systems with extreme processors, and "eh" other parts. Sure, it may be fast now, and you save some money with the biggest and baddest proc. But it really doesn't pay.

Right now I have all 32bit Athlons, so *any* 64 bit will be a gain. Especially with the 2GB of ram compared to my 1GB and 1.5GB on my two main systems.

What it comes down to is time and inital purchase price. Gas is on the rise, my electric bill goes up form the Air Conditioners in the house. I just did a renovation of my home office, I built a patio and a deck on the back of the house. I have my boat, and the gas that thing guzzels.

Financialy speaking, spending $3000 now and then a year down the road spenidng another $800 is easier and better for me than spending that extra $1500 now.

I don't have to have "the best of the best" right now, because really even with the 3000+ its one kick-butt system. But if I can go better now and still hover around the $2,800 mark if I wait 2 - 3 weeks will work too. But that depends on many factors. Newer parts havent been driving prices down do to costs to make them rising.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

grinch2171 wrote:
How would he be severely limited with his CPU. I don't know too many games or apps that will require much more. Especially since most apps are 32 bit and he is going 64 bit. Unless he plans on doing severe graphic rendering he should be fine. The video card plus the RAM will handle any game barely affecting the CPU.

I think the system will be quite good.


He will be CPU limited.

64 bit processors don't run 32 bit applications any faster than 32 bit processors.

Video card and RAM are only part of the equation when running a game. His CPU is quite a bit slower than his other parts.

GT500:

OK, that sounds good. I didn't know if you were a frequent upgrader or not. System looks great.
  • GT500Shlby
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I would say I'm more of the never ending upgrader. I'm always worried about money and afraid of over extending myself financially that one week I'm all "I can't sopend a dime, I have to sell everything right now" and the next week "I'm Mr GotRocks, I can buy the moon". I also hate loans, I won't buy a car with a loan. The only loans I have is the mortage on my house and my boat. I save for everything else, so I end up planning for a new car or computer 6months to a year ahead of time and I open a money market or short-term CD and I look for extra income to save in it.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

TomK wrote:
He will be CPU limited.

64 bit processors don't run 32 bit applications any faster than 32 bit processors.

Video card and RAM are only part of the equation when running a game. His CPU is quite a bit slower than his other parts.


Not really wanting to beat a dead horse but what PC game is going to cause a CPU bottle neck with his proc? None that I can think of, at least not to the point of "severley limiting".
  • TomK
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Post 3+ Months Ago

grinch2171 wrote:
TomK wrote:
He will be CPU limited.

64 bit processors don't run 32 bit applications any faster than 32 bit processors.

Video card and RAM are only part of the equation when running a game. His CPU is quite a bit slower than his other parts.


Not really wanting to beat a dead horse but what PC game is going to cause a CPU bottle neck with his proc? None that I can think of, at least not to the point of "severley limiting".


Half Life 2 is CPU limited.

So are most current generation games with complicated physics and AI (Doom 3, Far Cry, etc.).

Thus the creation of the AGEIA PhysX chip. This chip would not be needed if CPUs could handle current generation games.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

grinch2171 wrote:
TomK wrote:
He will be CPU limited.

64 bit processors don't run 32 bit applications any faster than 32 bit processors.

Video card and RAM are only part of the equation when running a game. His CPU is quite a bit slower than his other parts.


Not really wanting to beat a dead horse but what PC game is going to cause a CPU bottle neck with his proc? None that I can think of, at least not to the point of "severley limiting".


Half Life 2 is CPU limited.

Quote:
At 1024x768 you can see that even with our very robust Athlon 64 FX-53 CPU that Half Life 2 is severely CPU limited on all the video cards tested here.


That's with the FX-53 which is way faster than the 3000+.


Most current generation games with complicated physics and AI are CPU limited (Doom 3, Far Cry, etc.).

Thus the creation of the AGEIA PhysX chip. This chip would not be needed if CPUs could handle current generation games.
  • GT500Shlby
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Tom: Which cores did that include? I can see where an older Athlon 64 3000+ as well as an older core FX-53 (which doesn't come in any newer core). That why I'm thinking that's biased and based on an older core.

But the price difference between the processor I am looking at and an FX-55 San Diego is kinda steep.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

GT500Shlby wrote:
Tom: Which cores did that include? I can see where an older Athlon 64 3000+ as well as an older core FX-53 (which doesn't come in any newer core). That why I'm thinking that's biased and based on an older core.

But the price difference between the processor I am looking at and an FX-55 San Diego is kinda steep.


Cores will make only a very small difference. Your AMD 64 3000+ Venice will perform about the same as an AMD 64 3000+ Winchester. The difference is miniscule.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

If I wait, say a month - would prices fall enough to the point to even make a FX55 San Diego even worth it? Don't really want to go over the $3k. At that point I could go to an Athon 64 3700+ San Diego, but would that be enough?

The X2 is still way too expensive. I like having bleeding edge, but the reason I don't built pentiums is because I don't want to spend $1,000 for a processor. Anything over $240 is way too much.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

GT500Shlby wrote:
If I wait, say a month - would prices fall enough to the point to even make a FX55 San Diego even worth it? Don't really want to go over the $3k. At that point I could go to an Athon 64 3700+ San Diego, but would that be enough?

The X2 is still way too expensive. I like having bleeding edge, but the reason I don't built pentiums is because I don't want to spend $1,000 for a processor. Anything over $240 is way too much.


It's fine to run a 3000+, just know that your rig isn't going to perform like it should (before you upgrade) for the price you paid for it.

Prices will slowly drop until the FX-57 comes out which should bump the price down a few hundred but it will still be very expensive (think FX-53 when the FX-55 came out).
  • GT500Shlby
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Your right, I'm over-analysing the situation. I'm so afraid of making the wrong decision. Truth is, I can't really go wrong. I'm gonna calm down, take a look at the market, and re-evaluate the situation every week.
One day I might just hit that "Checkout" button and that'll be it untill I go and say "ooh, I need me an X2."

Its a good start, because that's exactly what it is, a start. Rome wasn't built in a day, I certainly am in no rush.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I took a glance at some of the processors that may be within my price range in the coming weeks. The San Diego core 3700+ and 4000+ are within reach of they will drop significantly with the coming processors. The FX-55, FX-57 San Diego core processors are still at $800+. These do no seem feasible as their price difference does not yet match the performance gain.

Do you think the added L2 cache and the higher clock speeds will benefit me and keep me from being as CPU Limited on certain video games?

If I am precluded from the ability to play such games without purchasing some $800 processor, than I think I would be better off just not playing them. At least until I do my first upgrade (which would most likely for an X2).

If I build a solid system with a good base of memory, video capabilities and newest architecture I am sure I will have a nominal ability to play the most demanding video games on the market to date. Besides, there more than just video games for which I need a computer for, most of which will benefit most from the use of SATAII, PCI-E, SLI, and the 90nm processor architectures.

I am a large critic of the cache hype that has hit the market lately. From my computer engineering background, the use of massive amounts of cache will only lead to problems down the SLC of these processors. However I am pleased with the current AMD roadmaps which shows a deviation from massive on-die cache to bettering thermoelectric response and the move into multi-core, multi-threading capabilities which will be the future of processing at least until nanotechnology takes over.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

With your setup you will be able to play any game you want. My PC has lesser hardware than yours and I can play new games although not at the highest setting but still decent enough to enjoy the game. Half Life 2 played quite well on my machine so don't fret.
  • GT500Shlby
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Your most likely right. I still might wait a little bit to see if I cannot grab a San Diego core at the very least. Also, the new GeForce video cards came out and even a lesser version of the 7800 core would be better than the 6800, however that just might lower the 6800Ultra to some nicer pricing.

However, that depends on what's released. If they release like a 7600GT and it outperforms all of the 6series but with a friendlier price tag than the 7800., I might grab one of them.

If I switch around some pricing abilities and maybe if I get my hands on some more cash, I'll go for a full 4GB of memory.

And the rest is just waiting on Seagate to release the SataII w/ NCQ drives. They have a 500GB, but that might be too much. I'd be better off grabbing two 250GB's and throwing them in Raid 0.

It would be christmas in july if the stupid CD/DVD drive makers would also start throwing out Sata150 or SataII drives as well. Preferably ones with SPDIF outputs on the back. I don't care about what the bottle neck in the drives are, its more about connectivity. I really don't want to spend 3 large and have a UDMA2 device in my computer. That's kind of worthless. .
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Post 3+ Months Ago

TomK wrote:
GT500Shlby wrote:
If I wait, say a month - would prices fall enough to the point to even make a FX55 San Diego even worth it? Don't really want to go over the $3k. At that point I could go to an Athon 64 3700+ San Diego, but would that be enough?

The X2 is still way too expensive. I like having bleeding edge, but the reason I don't built pentiums is because I don't want to spend $1,000 for a processor. Anything over $240 is way too much.


It's fine to run a 3000+, just know that your rig isn't going to perform like it should (before you upgrade) for the price you paid for it.

Prices will slowly drop until the FX-57 comes out which should bump the price down a few hundred but it will still be very expensive (think FX-53 when the FX-55 came out).



Uuuh, i thought the Vapochill LS was in there to max the 3000+ out. My old winchester 3000+ has been at 2.6Ghz for rather a long time and it works fine. All be it its not the bottleneck my 6600GT and 512mb of ram are. The FX57 is out in a couple of weeks, try looking on Ebay for an old Clawhammer FX55, they perform pretty well. Either that or a low end X2, 4200 Mancheter or 4400 Toledo. These are dual core and overclock pretty damned well from first results.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

and of course when i buy my computer, a month later all of the new stuff comes out :(


dual 6800 ultras 256
fx55

now are replaced with the new stuff -- o well, i am still extremly happy with my computer and how it performs, except for my broken chipset fan on my A8N-SLI Deluxe ;)
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Post 3+ Months Ago

That's how computers work, you buy a bleeding edge system and by the time Fedex gets it to your door, its hopelessly outdated.

I try to get the stuff that was *just* replaced but using the latest motherboard with the latest sockets and etc... That makes sure the computer is at least upgradable for about a year or two.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

well, when i had my old computer, i bought it about a year and a half ago, my father would not let me get 64 bit because "not many things are compatible with it" which is not true at all because it also supports 32 bit platforms as well :) -- tsk tsk tsk.

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