Workstation or Super computer?

  • XDUDE
  • Banned
  • Banned
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 199
  • Loc: Colorado, USA

Post 3+ Months Ago

I am looking in to new computers for my dad's recording studios for video rendering and editing platforms,right now i have it down to 2 computers..

Workstation computer..TYAN mainboard bass:
http://www.tyan.com/products/html/thunderk8qsdpro.html
Price: $40,000.00 (Fully loaded)

and

Super computer..Cray XD1's
http://www.cray.com/products/xd1/index.html
Price: $50,000.00 (1 Chassis)

Please give any info i can because i am in need of a lot of CPU power and these 2 are all that well work but i don't know much about the CRAYS..Talked to CRAY a few times and they sound like a winner but if someone can give me more info to help me with my decision it would be VERY helpful...Thanks,XDUDE
  • Anonymous
  • Bot
  • No Avatar
  • Posts: ?
  • Loc: Ozzuland
  • Status: Online

Post 3+ Months Ago

  • Tchuki
  • Mastermind
  • Mastermind
  • Tchuki
  • Posts: 1774
  • Loc: Edinburgh

Post 3+ Months Ago

Look into SUN microsystems ... you really can't get much better than them.
  • lucassix
  • Mastermind
  • Mastermind
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 2350
  • Loc: Indiana

Post 3+ Months Ago

I would go with the TYAN workstation. If some componet breaks in that system, you can get an AMD chip or a RAM stick anywhere and have it working again in no time. With the Cray, someone is going to have to come out with some special $$$ RAM card and then charge you for the labor, and the service call, etc etc
  • Kap-Vu
  • Graduate
  • Graduate
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 119
  • Loc: Indianapolis, IN

Post 3+ Months Ago

i aggree with lucassix. The tyan workstation seems more customizable to your specs. :lol:
  • Ishii
  • Proficient
  • Proficient
  • Ishii
  • Posts: 355
  • Loc: Gilbert, AZ

Post 3+ Months Ago

You could also build one hell of an Apple xgrid with the money you're talking about. Not sure if it would be compatable with the software you want to use... but it'd be hella fast.
  • XDUDE
  • Banned
  • Banned
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 199
  • Loc: Colorado, USA

Post 3+ Months Ago

well i like PC's..see form "64 Bit Windows and CPU's..The way of the Future..." for more on that.

But...

i didn't think about that lucassix..but the thing is i sure like the 106 GFLOPS of power the crays put out...the tyan is not a cray speed wise but it is nothing to thumb your nose at with 4 - 2MB L2 Cache / AMD Dual Core Opteron™ 870's 2.2Ghz (total 8 CPU's)..and the software i have and plan to get is for PC...plus,i like Avid XpressPro HD better than Final cut Pro HD...

:D
  • ScienceOfSpock
  • Mastermind
  • Mastermind
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 1893
  • Loc: Las Vegas

Post 3+ Months Ago

Another thing to consider:
If you are building the system for a specific software package, make ABSOLUTELY sure the software will actually USE the hardware you're throwing at it.
The Tyan is nice, and I know Avid is high end software, but I haven't seen much software that will take advantage of multiple 32 bit processors, let alone multiple 64 bit processors.

I would suggest finding out from the software manufacturers whether or not the software will take advantage of the hardware you're planning on using (and make sure to talk to someone who isn't a marketing drone)
Other than that, I would suggest buying the Avid software and testing it out on a single processor machine. This is video you're talking about, and I know some higher end applications require serious horsepower, but I have done some video production in the past, and unless you're talking about realtime broadcast feeds, I can't see a need for a $40k computer. You might be better off buying 8 or 10 $1500 computers and setting up a render farm.
  • XDUDE
  • Banned
  • Banned
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 199
  • Loc: Colorado, USA

Post 3+ Months Ago

Will we are looking into setting up a render farm because we are going in to full motion picture production in the new few years,but i need some kick butt stations to edit and then i well send it to the farm to get done...the video we are talking about here takes about 9 hours of rendering per 1 frame of HD video and there is 60 frames in one sec. of film so..this is going to need some very big horsepower...but thats the farms job..the stations are just going to be working in a realtime 3D rendered scenes (Animation/effects)...the avid if for just editing and some effects..for effects and CG i am using Alias Maya Ultimate and i know for a fact that Maya is made to run on render farms or multi CPU's.....
  • ScienceOfSpock
  • Mastermind
  • Mastermind
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 1893
  • Loc: Las Vegas

Post 3+ Months Ago

With a 9 hour frame time, I have to ask what raytracing engine are you using?!? I use 3D Studio Max 6 with Brazil R/S and the most a single HD (1920x1080) frame has taken is about 5 hours on a AMD Athlom XP 3200+.
Also, there are still only 30 frames per second in HD. There are 60 FIELDS per second, but since each field is only half the vertical resolution (even or odd lines), it still amounts to 30 frames per second, render-wise.

There is NO WAY I would spend $40k on a post-processing machine, if all it's going to be doing is splicing and after effects. I would put that $40k into my render farm and try to reduce that 9 hour frame time.
  • XDUDE
  • Banned
  • Banned
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 199
  • Loc: Colorado, USA

Post 3+ Months Ago

well that fact i gave u is the time it takes for motion picture rendering at a render farm i looked into(not the one we are looking to buying) and they said pixar rented there computers to do part of the film and it took about 9 hours per frame to render Shrek 2...but that is like 4 to 500TB's of storage per effect on each frame.....so the farm we put together wont be as fast as that because it is a big farm from what i remember..were just thinking about doing like 2 to 6 Cabinets of the cray XD1's for the farm(12 XD1's per Cabinet)...but effects stations have to be big them selfs because i tryed to load a test render world and on my FX it took 2 mins just to pan one frame with real time effects
  • ScienceOfSpock
  • Mastermind
  • Mastermind
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 1893
  • Loc: Las Vegas

Post 3+ Months Ago

I think I'm missing something here, what "real time effects" are you talking about? Xaos Pandemonium can take about 2 mins to render complex effects over a single frame on MY box, but my machine isn't anything seriously powerful. 2 mins isn't that long for post processing on a frame that takes 9 hours to render.
Anyway, back to my point: If you're going to throw hardware at a problem, make sure you're throwing it at the right problem. If you are expecting your render farm machines to take 9 hours a frame, and your post processing machines to take 2 mins a frame, I'd concentrate on beefing up the render farm machines, not the post processing machines.
  • XDUDE
  • Banned
  • Banned
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 199
  • Loc: Colorado, USA

Post 3+ Months Ago

see..your talking about just normal plugin filter effects..the effects i am talking about are HUGE..they take like 500GB's of space just to install them and they cost like 4 to 20 grand each effect software..these are like Matrix type effects and rendering...8 hours per frame is fast rendering in the motion picture world...motion pictures take YEARS or work and rendering....the matrix took something like 5 million tera bytes of space in total when they sent it to the render farm..thats y when they finish filming a movie they don't release it for another few months or even in some cases almost a year later...this is HUGE amounts of data PER frame....let alone in total....
  • ScienceOfSpock
  • Mastermind
  • Mastermind
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 1893
  • Loc: Las Vegas

Post 3+ Months Ago

Again, I must be missing something here. What software package are you talking about that requires half a terabyte to install?
I'll have to look it up, but if I remember correctly, The Matrix used Maya or SoftImage, neither of which require half a terabyte of install space, nor do any of their plugins that I'm aware of. As for effects software, I'd like to know what package requires half a terabyte of install space to render effects over a 1920x1080 frame. What does that ship on, 100 DVD's? How long does the install process take, a few years?

Again, I've done this for a number of years, and although I haven't done too much lately, I can't see a need for a $40k editing machine (since that is, by definition, a very small part of the equation) or a 500GB software package to render effects over a 1920x1080 video. Just my 2c.
  • XDUDE
  • Banned
  • Banned
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 199
  • Loc: Colorado, USA

Post 3+ Months Ago

i well find the info online and post it on here when i find it..but they didn't come on DVD or CD's..they come on a harddrive...one i can remember came on a Seagate Cheetah 10K 300GB SCSI Hard Drive and u hade to have another 200Gb's of space for it to run....i think it was a effect pack from dreamworks...i am not sure..i well have to get back with u if u want more info because my dad and i are still learning and shopping for all this stuff..when we talked to the people about the Maya they sounded like for the whole software and all the plugins ia was going to be several tera bytes..i well see what i can find and do another post soon....

Right after i posted this i found this..:

At a minimum, Maya requires a system with:
Windows: Intel® Pentium® III or higher, AMD Athlon™ processor
Macintosh: Power Mac® G4 and G5
512 MB RAM
CD-ROM Drive
Hardware-Accelerated OpenGL® graphics card
3-button mouse with mouse driver software
450 MB of hard disk space

and that is just the main software,that has nothing to do with the effect plugins and software..those are what takes the BIG power and space...i'll pose what else i fine when i find it....talk to u later
  • grimshit
  • Proficient
  • Proficient
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 303
  • Loc: Wiltshire, England

Post 3+ Months Ago

Whatever way you look at it its going to be one hell of a number cruncher. Have you looked into writing a distributed computing program, sharing the workload out accross hundreds of computers with the application installed, they take a small part of the render, render it, then send it back to a main server which will compile all of the renders. Im sure some of the users at ozzu would install the app and give you a hand.
  • ScienceOfSpock
  • Mastermind
  • Mastermind
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 1893
  • Loc: Las Vegas

Post 3+ Months Ago

XDUDE wrote:
At a minimum, Maya requires a system with:
Windows: Intel® Pentium® III or higher, AMD Athlon™ processor
Macintosh: Power Mac® G4 and G5
512 MB RAM
CD-ROM Drive
Hardware-Accelerated OpenGL® graphics card
3-button mouse with mouse driver software
450 MB of hard disk space

and that is just the main software,that has nothing to do with the effect plugins and software..those are what takes the BIG power and space...i'll pose what else i fine when i find it....talk to u later


I have 2 machines in the closet doing NOTHING, and they MORE than exceed those system specs. Not sure if you noticed, but the part you bolded said 450MB, ie MEGAbytes, not GIGAbytes.
For reference, I'm just trying to help you. I still don't see a need for a $40k machine.
  • EliteHunter
  • Banned
  • Banned
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 409
  • Loc: Under Your Bed

Post 3+ Months Ago

Holy Crap you pplz are smart!! I Hardly understand The Languge your speaking :shock:
  • XDUDE
  • Banned
  • Banned
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 199
  • Loc: Colorado, USA

Post 3+ Months Ago

but that is what i am trying to tell u..those specs are for the software that RUNS the plugin effects...u can run it on a dinky P3..but hell u can run photoshop on ANY pc but as soon ans u do an plugins and rendering u have to have a faster computer...i have Maya installed and use it now and it runs fine..but as soon as i even think about running effects or do an rendering the CPU is at 100% for that software for days...and i have the fastest single core single CPU computer u can buy....so the tyan even at 40K is not overkill by anymeans...because the Avid and Maya can run on some what "slower" computers but as with ANY program even if u have the max system they say well run the program,if u put that software on a computer 10 times faster,the program runs faster....and with maya and avid they don't have software limits,avid says " the faster computers get,the faster avid gets"..maya is the same but is more Pro basses....tons of movies have been made with avid and maya and each movie (effect movie"Matrix") had months and months on super computers running at 10.673 TFLOPS or more to render down all the effects and film cuts to get the movie we watch on DVD......i do a lot of "small" movies on my computer i am on now and even though the movie in the end is like 400MB's the project file is around 20GB's i think....and that took 2 weeks on another computer,the same specs as mine of rendering to get it done with all the effects and editing and different DPI video in the project(1:1 ext.) and that was a low as heck quality movie compared to todays blockbuster movies events....and our company and movies are going to be as good of quality if not better even if it takes a year ot 2 to render it...because MAN i do a lot of effects and animation in my movies(by the way,i wrote)....(i dont mean to brag)

Image
i took a screen shot at Pixar's website on "how they do it" where they talk about there renderfarms and how long it takes..they say 6 to 90 HOURS!
  • grimshit
  • Proficient
  • Proficient
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 303
  • Loc: Wiltshire, England

Post 3+ Months Ago

As your so intreseted in "power pc's" this might be of intrest, http://www.hpcsystems.com/products/svr_ ... uture.html fill that with dual core opterons and you have 16 cores. What OS do you intend on running on these? How much ram do you intend on buying?? Im intreseted as i want to know how much power what your doing is going too need...
  • XDUDE
  • Banned
  • Banned
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 199
  • Loc: Colorado, USA

Post 3+ Months Ago

Yeah...........i am VERY interested in that HPC System link u sent me....

i am thinking about running Windows XP PRO 64bit on these..or the 64bit Windows Server...and as far as RAM goes,to start out we might get like 5 to 10GB's,but the Tyan holds up to 32Gb's and that board u sent me holds 64GB's and we would end up with the computers at full specs sooner or later...another thing i don't think i said is that i am going to have 3 to 5 of these workstations for doing editing on..thats y i liked the Tyan and CRAY because they were around 50K and had some head turning power...the CRAY was very nice spec wise,but as it was pointed out,if anything goes wrong with the CRAY a tech would have to come out and do work on it,but that might be worth the risk for the power it pushs out....but i am going to heavily look into the HPC System u sent me..thanks for the info on that!....

I now have 3 options:
CRAY
TYAN
HPC Systems
ANY info on any of these systems would VERY helpful
  • grimshit
  • Proficient
  • Proficient
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 303
  • Loc: Wiltshire, England

Post 3+ Months Ago

No problem. I would recommened Server 2003 Enterprise Edition; ive been using it for some time now and it kicks ass. It also supports up too 32 cores theoretically which is 30 more than normal XP64 allows. I think you can download trials for all Microsoft OS' now, including there whole server range. http://www.microsoft.com


*Edit, it should be processors not cores. It doesnt matter how many cores it has - i think.*
  • XDUDE
  • Banned
  • Banned
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 199
  • Loc: Colorado, USA

Post 3+ Months Ago

Ok,i think i well pick up the new Windows Server 2003 Enterprise OS...i was looking and you said the Windows Server Enterprise would be what i need..what about 64Bit?they have a Windows Server 64 bit but dose it do all the CPU as the Enterprise?...i was takeing a look at them and i was not able to find this out...i want a 64bit OS and we are going to have at LEAST 4 CPU's on each computer and may go up to 24 or 32 CPU's,so what would/could u recommend for those specs of mine...

OS Overview:
CPU's: 4 -30+
64 Bit: Yes
Multi computer license: Yes
& what is the "average" price for that OS?

I did a search for Windows Server Enterprise and got prices from $500.00 to $4,000.00,They cant be the same product for that big of price difference...can they? :roll:
  • XDUDE
  • Banned
  • Banned
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 199
  • Loc: Colorado, USA

Post 3+ Months Ago

are any companys going to release a server or workstation multi CPU board like the TYAN or HPC Systems boards that well use the new M2 sockets for the up and coming Athlon 64 X2's?????
  • grimshit
  • Proficient
  • Proficient
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 303
  • Loc: Wiltshire, England

Post 3+ Months Ago

"Windows Server 2003 x64 Enterprise Edition" is the OS you will want, it costs around £1800, which is about $3200ish. This unfortunatly only comes with a 1 PC Licence. Socket F is ment too be the new Opteron socket, it will have 1207 pins and come in dual and quad core "flavors". Thats all i know, socket M is designed for a single processor system only.
  • XDUDE
  • Banned
  • Banned
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 199
  • Loc: Colorado, USA

Post 3+ Months Ago

so,how much do i have to pay to get a multi PC Licence?

because i have right now 4 computers,let alone when i buy all the new ones and i am not paying 3 grand per computer for an OS....
  • GT500Shlby
  • Guru
  • Guru
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 1205
  • Loc: Philadelphia, PA

Post 3+ Months Ago

All the PC's won't need to run windows server.

xp pro 64 will run on the clients, and the beast will run the server. Then set up processing load transfer between them and boom, instant server farm.
  • XDUDE
  • Banned
  • Banned
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 199
  • Loc: Colorado, USA

Post 3+ Months Ago

Ok..i made up my mind....kinda.....lol...ok i am now testing a tyan workstation,fully loaded and make sure it is going to do what i want it to..i may trun a test station of the HPC and the Crays are going to be in our "to come" render farm....thanks for all your input...i will let u know how it runs

Post Information

  • Total Posts in this topic: 27 posts
  • Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 38 guests
  • You cannot post new topics in this forum
  • You cannot reply to topics in this forum
  • You cannot edit your posts in this forum
  • You cannot delete your posts in this forum
  • You cannot post attachments in this forum
 
cron
 

© 1998-2014. Ozzu® is a registered trademark of Unmelted, LLC.