Advanced Google backlink question

  • darksat
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I was just wondering about something.
can anyone confirm that google reads/counts more than one backlink per page to another site?
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Post 3+ Months Ago

  • quantumcloud
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Any page can vote (pass pr) only once for another page or site. I forgot where I read it, but it was some place authoritative.
  • darksat
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Post 3+ Months Ago

How about the way the PR gets split so.
I assume if there are 5 links and 2 go to one page the pr gets split 4 ways.
  • madmonk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

"A link to a page counts as a vote of support. "

however, if you want to emulate duplicate links on the same page, it will be of less value to google.
  • Johan007
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I always thought 1 page 1 vote.

Its more loke a democracy this way but with PR. - Imagine doing that for a real election, people who are more educated get a higher vote.
  • quantumcloud
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
How about the way the PR gets split so.
I assume if there are 5 links and 2 go to one page the pr gets split 4 ways.


Should be something like that. I don't see a way to confirm this.
  • madmonk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
I always thought 1 page 1 vote.

Its more loke a democracy this way but with PR. - Imagine doing that for a real election, people who are more educated get a higher vote.


yeah, it is abit confusing.

typically, nobody will cast more than a vote from a page, to the same site. maybe some guys have more insight on this...

:?:
  • rtchar
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Many sites have duplicate INTERNAL links ....

There are often menus, text links, and even graphic links all pointing to the same page. So duplicates are a common occurrence.

Duplicates are removed and the link is only counted once.

The Anatomy of a Large-Scale Hypertextual Web Search Engine

Quote:
The URLresolver reads the anchors file and converts relative URLs into absolute URLs and in turn into docIDs. It puts the anchor text into the forward index, associated with the docID that the anchor points to. It also generates a database of links which are pairs of docIDs. The links database is used to compute PageRanks for all the documents.


This seems to indicate one vote per page.
  • madmonk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I know where u are coming from. heres where i am coming from..

how about treating a link as a vote?

how about 2 links from the same page, going into both domain name and index.html ?

spammy? :-)
  • rtchar
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I don't think it is considered spammy ...

I often do exactly what you are suggesting. Google sees the domain as separate from the file names.

I just checked the docID for my domain and default page ... they are different.

Right now MY domain and default page have different IDs, different PR, and are crawled on different schedules. For all intents it appears they are different pages as far as Google is concerned.
  • madmonk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

dude rtchar, I wasnt talking about dup internal links. :-)
I was talking about using a page of another site and channelling PR to yr own domain name and index.html.

sounds good to me :-)
  • rDolay
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Post 3+ Months Ago

We have one "HomePage" text link and one "keyword to rank" text link for the indexpage at the every subpage of the site.
So which one is valued by Google and which one is eleminiated :roll:
  • Johan007
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Post 3+ Months Ago

dolay wrote:
We have one "HomePage" text link and one "keyword to rank" text link for the indexpage at the every subpage of the site.
So which one is valued by Google and which one is eleminiated :roll:


The link text is read from both links. The PR is not effected. I do the same on my movie site.
  • rDolay
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Johan007 wrote:
dolay wrote:
We have one "HomePage" text link and one "keyword to rank" text link for the indexpage at the every subpage of the site.
So which one is valued by Google and which one is eleminiated :roll:


The link text is read from both links. The PR is not effected. I do the same on my movie site.

Ok. You know there are same 2 text link, which one has the keyword other has the HomePage.
So what about the anchor text effect on rankings:
Does the keyworded text link value lowered because of the homepage link?

P.S. Thanks Darksat this was the issue that i am concerning about however which i always forget to ask :)
  • Johan007
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Both your key words and link text will be counted. There maybe a limit or dilution to the amount of words so keep the total down to 4 per page IMO. I have done exactly the same as you and it works... I have used the word home but on my movie site have called it "movies home".
  • rtchar
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Makes sense to me Johan007 ...

Link text is used to return search results, and is given more weight because it is a link.

Links are used to calculate page rank, and duplicate links would only count as one vote.

madmonk
Quote:
I was talking about using a page of another site and channelling PR to yr own domain name and index.html.


I wasn't thinking about internal/external links. The domain has a different docID from the default page no matter what site it is on. :lol:
  • Jess
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Post 3+ Months Ago

actually the 1 page 1 link thing is just a myth.

An easy way to test this would be to target thje same page using two different anchor textxs that wasn't already listed in google... I have already ran the test and both sites appeared in the search result from the single link - both achieveing the same PR.......

I don't know exactly how many links from apage google gives advantage for but its more than one.l
  • rtchar
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Author Message
Jess


Could you be a little more specific about your test?

You say you had two links with different text pointing to the same page.

Then you sort of lose me .... :?:
I think you are saying that if you search on either link text you get search results pointing to the page.

If so then this is exactly what Johan007 said ... the link text is read from both links.

This does not prove that both links would be used in calculating PR. I stand by The Anatomy of a Large-Scale Hypertextual Web Search Engine

Quote:
It also generates a database of links which are pairs of docIDs. The links database is used to compute PageRanks for all the documents.
  • Jess
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Sorry it was a bit vague.

We have run multiple tests on how PR transfers... how anchor text/duplicated anchortext/varied anchor text reflects from page to page and so on...

Im just trying to think of the best example to give............

ok - A PR8 page. We link to a.htm (pr0) with one link. Then we link to b.htm(pr0) with two links.

On the PR update both pages had PR7.....

Thats what we would have expected - so there was no big supprise. Then we started over again.

A PR8 page - 1 link to c.htm and 2 links to d.htm (both PR0)

the difference this time was we used different anchor texts for the two links pointing at d.htm - the result c.htm(PR7) and d.htm(PR8) .... to me this proves that more than one link from a page counts.. if it isn't duplicated.

We re-run that test over and over - using different PR's - always the same result.

I have a whole bunch of new tests set up - but it doesn't like google plans to update anytime soon :P lol
  • Johan007
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Good work Jessica. Did you do this as part of your job or in education? That was an experiment I wanted to carry out but never had the time and put my faith in 1 page 1 vote. I will need to see another experiment before I start believing it (just like good science).
  • rtchar
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Post 3+ Months Ago

That certainly does cause some doubt in Googles description of how links are stored and PR is calculated.

Good ground work ... that is really interesting research!

Be sure to tell us more when the data is in. :D
  • Johan007
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Post 3+ Months Ago

...and how did you get a PR8 page in the first place? I havent even got a 7 to play with.
  • Jess
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Johan007 wrote:
...and how did you get a PR8 page in the first place? I havent even got a 7 to play with.


lol good old fasioned hard work.

It really wouldn't matter what PR's you used for the tests - I was just giving an example of 1 test we have done... :)
  • nanoreef
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Post 3+ Months Ago

So in lieu of the fact google hasn't updated PR (at least published) in such a long time....

    When were these experiments conducted
    What is the likely hood the results still apply (with all the algorithm changes being experienced from one month to the next)
    Do you expect the same result with 3 or more outgoing links with different anchor text


And what about this link back to "url" and "url/index.html.... what really is the advantage. Google sees them as separate pages so neither will get a PR boost, so isn't it just splitting the PR anyway. I've always kept my links to index absolute to the "url" so the PR wasn't split... can you comment please???

nanoreef n'amugabeer... :shock:

thank you, and great thread!
  • Johan007
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Post 3+ Months Ago

keep links relative because its profetional. Everyone including bots see relative or absolute as the same page apart from the index or default page if you chose to link via file name or /. I prefer the /
  • nanoreef
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Absolute for index because any backlinks coming into index will be absolute... if internal links to index are relative, then PR to index gets split.... right? And u'r right, this only applies to index (default) not any other pages.

I make any global links absolute as well, which makes no difference to pages except index (default) in terms of PR, but makes it easier to make global changes in menu's etc (find and replace site wide) when the domain contains folders... makes sense i think???

Nanoreef.... :crazyeyes:
  • Jess
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
And what about this link back to "url" and "url/index.html.... what really is the advantage. Google sees them as separate pages so neither will get a PR boost, so isn't it just splitting the PR anyway


does it? I'd love to see your evidence of this? I threw this challenge out a few weeks back and nobody could prove it?
  • nanoreef
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Jess wrote:
Quote:
so isn't it just splitting the PR anyway???


does it? I'd love to see your evidence of this? I threw this challenge out a few weeks back and nobody could prove it?


It was as much a question as anything else. It was someone else early in the thread that brought up the url vs url/index.html issue. I've come accross this business of "splitting" the PR between the two before, but have never read anything definative....

I am interested in your take on the matter jess!

Nanoreef heading home for a beer now :shock:
  • madmonk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

sometimes, google pick domain.com/index.html and domain/ as 2 different pages. recognised by google as 2 unique pages.
-you can verify this by listing a site's indexed pages

You can also check out this tool. Great Tool again rtchar!! :P
http://www.mrktcity.com/viewlink.html

Since you are also gonna want to link exchange or list your site in directories as well, it is normally best to stick to absolute addresses!
Google will index these two pages as different pages...

also for consistency's sake, it is often best to have most of your links in your site sticking to domainname.com/ format as well. :-)
  • rtchar
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
Quote:
And what about this link back to "url" and "url/index.html.... what really is the advantage. Google sees them as separate pages so neither will get a PR boost, so isn't it just splitting the PR anyway


does it? I'd love to see your evidence of this? I threw this challenge out a few weeks back and nobody could prove it?


I have pointed out before, Google treats them separately on my site ...

http://www.dogtagsdirect.com/ = PR-5
http://www.dogtagsdirect.com/default.htm = PR-4

Google has been a little erratic about including default.htm in the index. I think the duplicate page filter removes the page, then on the next update the page is included. :lol:

When this happens separate docIDs are assigned to each page.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

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