Has PR been devalued this time?

  • rtchar
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Wondering if anybody else noticed that there seems to be a lot more PR-5 sites this time around?

Maybe I am just hanging around a better class neighborhood but it feels like I am running into a lot more PR-5 sites than last month. :)

When I checked back on my link requests it seems that more than half have increased from PR-3 to PR-5 or better.

Anyone else seeing this?
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Post 3+ Months Ago

  • vetofunk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Ive noticed the same thing. About 75% of my clients are a PR5. I am starting to hate 5.
  • rtchar
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Hmmmm ...

Does that mean there is a bug in the algorithm and we'll all fall back next month?

Or is this Google's way of getting more PR-4's because no one wants to link with low PR sites?

Did this only affect low PR sites? :twisted:
  • phaugh
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
Or is this Google's way of getting more PR-4's because no one wants to link with low PR sites?

Interesting thought....all the top site linking to each other and all the new sites left out in the cold....maybe we're responsible for the non-existant "sandbox effect" :lol:

PR in it's nature has a cascading or domino effect.

When you have
link1 > link2 > link3 > link4 > link5 > link6 > ...

and PR goes up somewhere it gets pass along the path.
  • rtchar
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I like to measure things and see how they change over time....

Looking at my link requests from March thru June (so all sites had link pages) It does look like it is harder to move PR the higher you go.

100 - PR-3 sites 73 higher, 22 same, 5 fell
100 - PR-4 sites 58 higher, 33 same, 7 fell
100 - PR-5 sites 29 higher, 64 same, 7 fell
18 - PR-6 sites 4 higher, 14 same, 0 fell

BTW ... depending on link quality these are average links required (small sampling):

PR-4 from 2 to 30+ links
PR-5 from 25 to 50+ links
:?: This gap appears very odd?
PR-6 from 150 to 350+ links

There are plenty of exceptions in *.gov and affiliate sites. :!:
  • phaugh
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Post 3+ Months Ago

It could be the fact that once you get enough PR you start to concentrate on other aspects of ranking.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
This gap appears very odd?
PR-6 from 150 to 350+ links


My site dropped from a PR6 to a PR5 during the update in april. At the same time the number of backlinks increased from around 30 to 55.

My site, when it was a PR 6, did not have anyway near the 150-350 backlinks.

It tells me that Google does boost new sites (my site was new at the moment). It also tells me that Google does re-evaluate new listings to a more decent PR over time.

During the latest update I reached 93 backlinks, but my site is still a PR 5. I have also come to hate the "5":-)
  • phaugh
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Down with PR5 ! or is it up?
  • rtchar
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Little bit of an update ...

Quote:
PR-4 from 2 to 30+ links
PR-5 from 25 to 50+ links
PR-6 from 150 to 350+ links


These are not hard quotas ... even one good quality will raise your PR to dizzying heights. :shock: But I don't have access to *.gov, *.mil or major manufacturers. It's been said here before ... if you COULD get a link on Google's home page your site would rank PR-9! :lol:

A 'little guy' like me has to accumulate PR-4's and PR-5's and maybe in a good year I might get a PR-6 or two (I hope). I know ... I could BUY better links. :roll:

So how many PR-4s and PR-5s is it going to take?

I went back and did a little more research. Using PROG I found different PR values and clicked on [backlinks]. PROG is at http://www.webmasterbrain.com/prog/

PR-4 from 2 to 30+ links
PR-5 from 25 to <100 links
PR-6 from 100 to 350 links
PR-7 from 350 to 1000 links
PR-8 1000+ links

Again ---> there are exceptions depending on the QUALITY of links you can get.
  • vetofunk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Google caused Pagerank Mania!

http://www.webpronews.com/insiderreport ... Mania.html
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I like the future PR tool. is it accurate??
  • vetofunk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

It is just a prediction.
  • discountdomains
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Some people are saying PR is almost worthless now.

I'm not certain.

Clare
  • phaugh
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I don't think that's true...it's one of the things that seperates google from other search engines...it's their niche....It may be in a state of devaluation now....but I would bet that they are working on making it better at figuering out what are natural links and which links are purchased or spammy...a couple of more graduations from Stanford and they will have the personel to do it. :)
  • vetofunk
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I would never believe that. They need to improve it, but it is still a very useful tool in ranking sites.
  • phaugh
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Post 3+ Months Ago

rtchar...here's a tool that will help you with those PR link numbers above. The tool will show you what type of PR to expect from a page of some PR value with x outgoing links. IE. If I place a link to my site on a page that is PR5 and has 50 outgoing links how much PR should I expect to receive. It would be a better tool if it could take a url and go lookup the PR of a page and the number of outging links...but if you have that info you can get a pretty good estimate of PR to be passed. Articles here: http://www.thinkbling.com/prcalc/
  • rtchar
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Post 3+ Months Ago

phaugh

I took a look at the tool and it does provide some insight for page rank.
It seems to run a little on the low side, but that may be because of the assumption of 50 links per page.

I am intrigued by the specs in your post. What would you do with the information once you know the PR and the number of links?

I received a news letter today and they are also speculating on the number of links required ... etc. The article includes a link to a table showing how many links are required for each PR. :)
http://www.sitepronews.com/pagerank.html

Phaugh -- I see you are quoting the same newsletter in another quote :lol:
  • phaugh
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Post 3+ Months Ago

"I am intrigued by the specs in your post. What would you do with the information once you know the PR and the number of links? "

It would be the most accurate tool for determining what sites to link to...not all PR5 are created equal.


" see you are quoting the same newsletter in another quote " yeah that's me ;)
  • rtchar
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I am not sure that should be a determining factor ...

The problem is that the PR displayed is just a representation of actual PR value. In other words not all PR-5's are equal. Without knowing the exact PR value of the page in question, how could you determine the link value?

According to the table ... PR value could have a range of 5,033-27,213 represented as a PR-5 page. So a page could have 5x the number of links and still be of equal value.

The script you are suggesting is easily done... but there has to be a better use for this information.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
PR-4 from 2 to 30+ links
PR-5 from 25 to <100 links
PR-6 from 100 to 350 links
PR-7 from 350 to 1000 links
PR-8 1000+ links

Again ---> there are exceptions depending on the QUALITY of links you can get.


Just thought I'd share this link with you guys... http://www.seoresearch.com/ A PR7 page with only 47 backlinks. I am definitely loosing the big picture :?: Most of the links is PR5.
  • Axe
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Number of links has nothing to do with it...

I've got several sites with 176, 205, 315, 138 and 141 backlinks respectively. All those sites are PR5.

Number of pages linking to a page does play a part in it, but it's the pagerank of those pages that makes the real difference.

49 PR4 and 1 PR8 isn't going to get you anywhere near as high a resulting PageRank as would 50 PR8 backlinks.

On the other hand, 50 PR5 pages could potentially pass along more PR than 50 PR8 pages of those 50 PR5 pages only have 5 external links each and the 50 PR8 pages have 500 external links on each of 'em.

There's a LOT of factors weighed up when calculating a page's PR value.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Yeah I agree, that the value of PR from a given site depends on the number of outgoing links from that site.

The site that gives 33 PR5 backlinks to the site I mentioned has aprox. 40 outgoing links per page which I think is a lot.

I still think that PR7 with the backlinks above is pretty high. I can not help wonder if this (IMHO) HIGH PR is due to the fact that Google does not see any outgoing links, because of flash navigation, from that page....All the PR is contained.
  • Axe
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Post 3+ Months Ago

How much PR a page passes on to others has nothing to do with that page's own PR...

That is to say...

A PR8 page is still a PR8 whether it has zero outgoing links or 100 outgoing links.

Outgoing links on a page don't make a difference to that page's PR. Just the inbound ones :)
  • phaugh
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Then why do people always refer to a page as leaking PR? I thought that was a by product of the outgoing links.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I agree to the point where a page with a PR of 5 is always a PR 5 page no matter how many outgoing links it has.

On the other hand I am getting more and more sure that a page with no outgoing links does score a higher PR than an equal site with outgoing links.

In short I believe that pagerank leak does exsist (how do I spell that :?: )

Hope you understand my poor english..I am really trying hard :D
  • Axe
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I believe pagerank leak refers to passing PR along from a page to EXTERNAL pages, rather than passing as much as possible to your own other INTERNAL pages (through site navigation links, etc.)
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Post 3+ Months Ago

PageRank as I understand it has to do with pages and not sites.

Therefore in my theory PageRank leak will occur also if links is used solely on internal pages.

According to Google PageRank is a vote for a specific page not a complete site.
  • Axe
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Yes, but in an ideal world, each page on your site passes along as much PR as possible onto all the other pages on your site. After all, somebody else's PR isn't important to you unless they're linking to you. YOUR PR is what's important.

PR is said to "leak" when you take away the amount of PR a page passes onto other pages of YOURS, by passing it on to other peoples' pages.

Yes, PageRank is a vote for a page, not a site. "Leak" is just a term somebody made up to describe taking PR from your own pages, and passing it along to external pages.

No "Leak" will occur if all the pages on your site are linking to each other and NO external URLs, because all the PR is self-contained.

It's not a Google thing, it's a human interpretation of losing PR on your own pages by passing it along to external links instead of internal pages. It leaks FROM your pages, to other peoples' pages when you link to them.

The page doing the linking doesn't lose PR by linking to the outside world, however, the internal pages it links to will receive a smaller chunk of that PR from that page, and will therefore pass back a smaller PR TO that page - which is why people sometimes say "adding external links lowers your PR". Only because the share of the PR you're passing to other pages on your site, and the PR passed back from those pages is lowered slightly each time you add an external link.
  • phaugh
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Axe...thanks for clarifying that!
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Post 3+ Months Ago

As much as I hate to admit it...you are spot on, Axe :D
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