hows my link structure looking?

  • madmonk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

hi guys, I thought my travel site's link structure's pretty cool.
lol.
just kidding. it looks alrite to me. what do you think?

more ways to improve it ?

http://www.travelwalk.net/phpBB2/index.php
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Post 3+ Months Ago

  • phaugh
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Post 3+ Months Ago

looks great to me...you have alot of strong PR going to internal pages and thus being returned to the home page and other main topic pages.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Hi.
Are you using mod rewrite for the pages? It's nice. I like the way you have it set up.
  • rtchar
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I ran your structure ... well the first 35 of 104 pages anyway ... through my link analyzer.

My first concern is how you reference the root document (index.php) in some cases you appear to be using '/' in other cases the full name 'index.php'. This is considered to be two documents by spiders and in effect splits the PR between your domain and the page.
(http://www.travelwalk.net/index.html vs http://www.travelwalk.net/)

The number of external links found seems to be small and scattered throughout the pages. This will reduce page rank leak. Your partner site should get a good pop from links on every page once you get some PR inside your site.

You have successfully choked the PR going into the forums by forcing navigation through index.php and profile.php (I hope this is what you wanted?).

Most of the PR is returning to pages in the root but you might consider streamlining your internal links. Most pages have 20-30 links to internal pages. You can cut that down on some of your least important pages. For example does every forum page need a link to faq, about and recommendation?

Thin the links out to what is logical at that point in your structure and pass more PR back to the higher pages.
  • phaugh
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Post 3+ Months Ago

what are you using for the link analysis? Sounds cool!
  • madmonk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

wow. what a good analysis!
Many thanks for all yr comments in this thread guys!

"My first concern is how you reference the root document (index.php) in some cases you appear to be using '/' in other cases the full name 'index.php'. This is considered to be two documents by spiders and in effect splits the PR between your domain and the page.
(http://www.travelwalk.net/index.html vs http://www.travelwalk.net/)"

- How careless of me! I should have seen that. I am sticking to
http://www.travelwalk.net/index.html.

-I am just guessing here...As long as I stick to one of them, it should be alright?



"The number of external links found seems to be small and scattered throughout the pages. This will reduce page rank leak. Your partner site should get a good pop from links on every page once you get some PR inside your site. "

- I intend to keep it that way. I have some more backlinks that are coming up :wink: I need the boost. travel sites are hard to make.. too much competition....


"You have successfully choked the PR going into the forums by forcing navigation through index.php and profile.php (I hope this is what you wanted?). "

- Yes. I was just guessing about this too.
Better way to this ? I cant think of any.. please advise.

-Also, one question related to this.. What happens if I have the latest posts fetched to my home (index.html) page?
Will I be drawing out the PR from the forums to the home page or vice versa?

"Most of the PR is returning to pages in the root but you might consider streamlining your internal links. Most pages have 20-30 links to internal pages. You can cut that down on some of your least important pages. For example does every forum page need a link to faq, about and recommendation? "

- I dont understand the last line. I have my forum pages link to faq.
which about, recommendation are you talking abt ? sorry, lost here. :?
As for the first part, waht good does it do to my PR on home page._?
Will streamlining my internal links increase my current PR5?
or simply it increases both the home page N other internal important pages..?

- I think you are hinting on the second one. increasing home page N other important pages... right?

"Thin the links out to what is logical at that point in your structure and pass more PR back to the higher pages."
- lol. this sounds poetic but I think I know what you mean in here.

-Seems like heaps to do . will start on it later on.
Thanks guys!
TIA for incoming comments too! :wink:
  • phaugh
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Post 3+ Months Ago

"I am just guessing here...As long as I stick to one of them, it should be alright? " In reference to the home page I think it's best to get rid of any links pointing to index.html...because http://www.yourdomain.com will always exist.....replace the index.html links with http://www.domain.com....that's what people who link to you without you asking are most likely to link to....and those are the best links!
  • madmonk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Yes I think you are right abt it plaugh. :-)
  • rtchar
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I always use "/" to refer to the root document ... but I also leave one reference to index.*. If you have both references on your home page it is counted as two backlinks. :D

Fetching posts to front page ... if you provide a link into the forum it will also transfer PR.

Thinning links ... what I mean here is the less travelled pages do not need 20-30 links. PR is divided by the number of links per page so you dilute the PRcoming back from those pages.

Yes I believe it is possible to magnify the incoming PR and pass it back to your home page. I have seen two examples so far where I think this has happened.

Quote:
what are you using for the link analysis? Sounds cool!


My own script/bot ... I get bored easily :lol:
  • madmonk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Very helpful information here! :D

Quote:
Fetching posts to front page ... if you provide a link into the forum it will also transfer PR.


- Transfer PR from the forums u mean?
  • rtchar
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Page Rank (PR) is always transferred from the page with links to the page it is pointing toward. A link on your home page will transfer PR to the forums.

If you are allowing signatures with links then you might want to choke it off to reduce page rank leak from your site. Otherwise put lots of internal links on every page to keep page rank within the site (like OZZU). :)
  • madmonk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

lol. I see I see. I will get down to changing the stuffs now.
thanks for the advice rtchar. it has only been good so far!
  • madmonk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

lol. done with the changes guys.
see any stuff ups, tell me please. :-)
esp. google related-

other than the grammer, language- whcih is pretty bad. lol.
compliemtns of my friend who wrote the articles..
i suspect hes dyslexic.

:-)

Cheers mate!
  • rtchar
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Post 3+ Months Ago

HUGE improvement in channelling PR ...

I had to teach my bot a few new tricks to handle your site (never expected '\%20' in an address) but managed to crawl your entire site anyway. :lol:

Looks like you are retaining 70% of potential PR within your site. Not bad at all!

All references to /index.htm are gone ... I wonder if you should keep at least some reference? Maybe on pages where there are two links to the home page. On my site the domain has PR-5 and default.htm has PR-4 so Google is not treating them as duplicate pages.

You have a couple of rank sinks (pages with no forward links):

1. Errors
http://www.travelwalk.net/gallery/cpg1. ... /login.php
http://www.travelwalk.net/gallery/cpg1. ... gister.php

These pages refer to memberlist.php and privmsg.php which would logically be in the same directory. Yet, the page appears to be redirected to a different directory.

Might be a weakness in my bot ... but when I try to access the pages directly I get an error.

http://www.travelwalk.net/gallery/cpg1. ... sg.php:500

2. Picture

http://www.travelwalk.net/eastern-europe.htm has a link to http://www.travelwalk.net/docu/poland Apparently this loads a picture file (which failed for me by the way).

Do not load pictures into the user's browser, picture files are not assigned PR. Since there are no forward links the PR is simply lost. Put pictures on a simple page with at least one link back into the site.

3. PDF Files

http://www.travelwalk.net/docu/train_tokyo.pdf

Again might be a weakness in my bot ... I don't parse PDF files. Make sure PDF files contain links back into your site. Google does parse PDF files and if there are no forward links PR is lost from your site.

Hope this all helps ...
  • madmonk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
I had to teach my bot a few new tricks to handle your site (never expected '\%20' in an address) but managed to crawl your entire site anyway.


damned cool thing you are doing with your bot here.
I have no idea how to do a bot at all!

I have fixed the pdf- changed them into htm instead

and as for the forward links that are lacking in some pages, I have added index.htm as its forwards.
so majority of pr will be to the domain name and onli two pages will be solely forwarded to index.html. sounds ok to me

.php files (login and register) - I have no idea what it is about. sorry. :oops: seems to have no redirects on them. wait a min. - there's redirects...
two login pages in all, one with pr 4, the other with pr 2.
two register pages too. -hmmm,..
will look into it later....

so far so good. real good progress for the past few days with you guys pointing out the mistakes. gosh . seems to have lots of mistakes in this site.
I have to plan more before making website in future. at least, with regards to navigation.. :wink:
  • rtchar
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Like I said ... I get bored easily. :)

Glad to help ...
  • madmonk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

yes thanks. you helped heaps!
after this thread, i have a better idea of what PR really is..
and what to look out for..

cheers mate!
  • rtchar
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Madmonk

I cleaned up my bot a little and put part of it here:
http://www.mrktcity.com/viewlink.html

It is limited to 20 pages in this version ... takes about 30 seconds to crawl a site a parse out the links. Give it a try.
  • madmonk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

it looks good!

I can see the balance of links from there.
  • rtchar
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Now you can see why it was so easy to pick out navigation problems.

I did not include internal page rank calculations because it would not be a fair representation with 20 pages.

How did you like the graph of Google's navigation?
  • madmonk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

its all looking good! from the scan results shown, I can see the linkage of each page to other pages.
very neat, and it moves on to the inner pages.

I am guessing that your next version will extend beyond 20 pages...:-)
  • rtchar
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Post 3+ Months Ago

The only reason for the 20 page limit is the graphing and of course bandwidth. Very large sites can also test your limit for patience. :)

The next version will include graphing the structure for those who are numerically challenged. :lol:

You can tell a lot about the structure of a site from the first 20-25 pages. Just look at the graphs for Google and Yahoo!

I am not sure how I am going to deal with full site analysis just yet.
  • phaugh
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Post 3+ Months Ago

"I am not sure how I am going to deal with full site analysis just yet."....really really small fonts...lol

Nice tool!
  • rtchar
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Really ... how many pages are enough?

I was thinking this tool would help with initial site development. If you don't have your structure figured out by 20 pages ... will you ever go back and fix 100's of pages? :lol:

I think a different tool will be needed for larger sites. Internal page rank channelling would be more relevant than actual backlinks.

Maye for larger sites the test can be scheduled and results emailed on completion?
  • phaugh
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"Internal page rank channelling would be more relevant than actual backlinks. " Sounds interesting can you tell us more?
  • madmonk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
I was thinking this tool would help with initial site development. If you don't have your structure figured out by 20 pages ... will you ever go back and fix 100's of pages?


heh heh. you are making sense here. and it will definitely help in initial site development. even better to have a plan before development though...
:lol:
  • rtchar
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Post 3+ Months Ago

But how do you know if your plan is correct? What structures optimize page rank ... and are they user friendly? So far I have found 'page rank channelling' difficult to explain, and even harder to prove.

I have started to put explanations with the graphs, to highlight the different types of link structures I have observed. Every site has a unique fingerprint, but there are common structures that can be seen.

I have a few questions I am trying to answer:

Is it possible to calculate 'real page rank' from observing internal linkage?

Is it possible to magnify page rank with the 'right' structure.

Are some structures rewarded or penalized?

(and so much more ....)
  • madmonk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

heh. I am no expert at seo. but this is how i do my plan. I sketch the site navigation on paper.

-top level represents the most important categories
-categories has sub-categories which are less important

(white box)

I may sound abit warped here but I also imagine a big tree with branches. big branches are more obvious to the eye than small branches. likewise, i want some pages to be more obvious.

I dont see how page rank can be magnified. can you explain more abt yr theory?

also, how can the 'right' structure be determined_?

:-)
  • rtchar
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Post 3+ Months Ago

It still comes back to the same question ... how do you know if your plan is correct?

I am still analyzing link structures to see what makes a good site. The biggest problem here is that it takes so long for updates to trickle through. You have to know the site history in order to interpret PR changes.

I have identified structure that is wrong --- Rank sinks, Choke points and excessive internal linking.

As for magnifying page rank ... the theory goes like this:
Since most links point to the home page, internal pages get PR from internal links. By organizing internal links it should be possible to channel the maximum PR to selected pages especially the home page.

So in theory at least the 'right' structure could take incoming PR, pass it through the link structure, and return a multiple of the original page rank back to the home page.

I have only seen this on two sites that I analyzed. In both cases the back links (<20 each) never exceeded PR-5 ... but both sites had a PR-6 rating.
  • phaugh
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Just a thought...looking down the site structure it seems that a pyramid scheme is evident...top of the pyramid is the home page, next level is the different main topics, then sub topics as deep as you want to go....looking back up the site strucutre it becomes a circle...all sub catagories linking back to the topic pages all the topic pages linking to the home page and other topic pages...all pages link to the home page...maybe?
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