Just don't get it

  • Grogger
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Newbie here, so don't flame me too bad if I'm breaking any rules.

Try this search in Google: march madness

Someone PLEASE explain to me how the #5 ranked page out of 2,480,000 is this one:

http://www.provide.net/~brewpaul/

About to pull out what's left of my hair!!! :x
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Post 3+ Months Ago

  • Cibok
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Post 3+ Months Ago

It has a DMOZ listning with that keyprhaze in it!
http://dmoz.org/Sports/Basketball/Fan_Pages/
  • vetofunk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

His PageRank is very high and if you look at his cached site, that term is only found on links pointing to his site. I am guessing he has dozens of sites pointing to him with the term "march madness" in the anchor text. These two mixed together can get you to great positioning.

An example:
Search for "miserable failure"

You think the #1 site has that term in any part of the site?....no.
Its all because of incoming links and high Pagerank.
  • Grogger
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Thanks for your responses.

OK, I understand that DMOZ listings can greatly affect rankings. However, the page has nothing to do with March Madness. No text. No meta. No links. NO NOTHING.

The last time it did (according to archive.org) was Nov. of 1992. So is Google ignoring the irrelevance of the page when crawling it and just defaulting to the fact that its on DMOZ?
  • vetofunk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

You can always report to DMOZ that this page has nothing do to with March Madness and is password protected.

You should be able to do this at http://www.resource-zone.com.
  • phaugh
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Wow...This guy is doing this on only 4 links with march madness in every one of them.... No links in yahoo, msn, or alta vista. My guess is this is a product of being part of a larger domain http://www.provide.net has over 1500 pages in the google index.
  • Grogger
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Whatever it is, it is the biggest hole in Google's algorithm I've seen. A shame and enough to get me more bitter than I already am.

Any other thoughts?
  • Axe
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Hey, we should stat up a site...

"Things that suck about Google"....

Get everybody linking to it with the anchor text "Google"... See if we can out-do them on their own search ;)
  • Johan007
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Grogger wrote:
OK, I understand that DMOZ listings can greatly affect rankings.


This is not true. The PR you get from a DMOZ page eg:4 is the same value as a link from another PR4 site. If it Google did this would then be "Hilltop” and that’s not implemented by Google yet.

The only way a DMOZ listing is greater than another is when other websites use DMOZ to power a directory but when they do the PR is most often below 4 and would not show up in back links and any ranking boost is small.
  • Grogger
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Johan007,

If it's not the case, how do you explain that ranking?
  • Johan007
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Post 3+ Months Ago

cos of DMOZ...

However what I am saying is that if another site eg: yours was to link to it via:

2 PR 7 links with the link text of your search term
2 PR 4 links with the link text of your search term

then it should* equal it.

*some smaller PR links may be hidden from the back links and they may or may not have an effect on ranking.

You can start by adding a small signature link to in forums (though they have know to be suddenly devalued from sites like phpbb so don’t rely on them)
  • vetofunk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Then again, he may have 200 PR3 links from 200 other sites all with that term in the anchor text. With, DMOZ...the PR from DMOZ does not carry anymore weight than any other site, but the category you are listed in DMOZ can greatly effect your positioning, at least what I have experienced.
  • phaugh
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Hey vetofunk....tell us more about the effect of the category you choose in DMOZ.....please!
  • discountdomains
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Post 3+ Months Ago

March Madness is an usual phrase so there are probably not many sites optimised for that phrase.

But a lot may have a mention of it on them, hence the 2,5m listing on Google.

Clare
  • vetofunk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Well its nothing that I have concrete evidence of, but I have read opinions in the past that Google uses DMOZ category information to compare with your site to better position your site in Google. When Google would place the directory link under your site in their serps, I noticed that the top positions were always in a similiar category in DMOZ. It is a good idea if you think about it. This way, it helps Google find out what is spam and what is actually a relevant site. When I go looking to submit links to sites, I always check what sites are in my DMOZ category and which ones are in similiar categories.

This all has just been my experience. Most people do this anyway. Bottom line is that you should always submit your site to the most relevant category in DMOZ.
  • Grogger
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Agree that it is not that common a phrase, however, just about EVERY other site of the 2.5 Million are more "optimized" than that listing (including title tags including the term, meta, the term in the body, content, etc.).

That one has nothing. HAD something at one point, but thought the reason for having bots was to keep their listing current.
  • vetofunk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

It was a high Pagerank and probably has many links, under PR4 coming into it. Like I said before, if you don't think it belongs in that category in DMOZ, report it to DMOZ. Its so easy, and they usually give you a response about it in the forums in less than 24 hours.
  • phaugh
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Post 3+ Months Ago

makes sense......thanks
  • phaugh
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I ran a backlink checker on that site and it only showed 4 backlinks in google, 0 backlinks in Intomki, Alta Vista and Yahoo....It would be highly unlikely that lots of low PR backlinks existed and none of these other engines picked them up....check out the stats on the parent domain that this directory sits in.....
  • Grogger
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Post 3+ Months Ago

vetofunk,
Thanks for your responses. Should have mentioned that it is not this specific site that is my concern. Rather, my concern is an algorithm that would "see" that site as the 5th most relevant.

In my limited experience, dealing with DMOZ is like having a conversation with a stuffed animal. You do all the talking, never get a response, and end up coming out of the experience looking stupid and feeling frustrated.

On a side note, I submitted my site to them 6 months ago. Never heard anything, never got listed, etc. Have sent an email on the 1st of every month trying to even see if a human being exists over there, and have never gotten a response.

Anybody know a way to, or better yet know a contact at DMOZ?
  • vetofunk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Have you gone through http://www.resource-zone.com? It is DMOZ's forum. They allow you to ask submission status once a month and you always get a response.
  • phaugh
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
dealing with DMOZ is like having a conversation with a stuffed animal
....right on! :cry:
  • Grogger
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Post 3+ Months Ago

vetofunk,

No, I have not gone through resource-zone.com (saw your earlier post which linked deeper but I was confused as to where I was ... doesn't take much).

Would the "submission forum" be the place to go to check on submission status? Seems likely, but the last thing I want to do as a newbie there is start stepping on toes.

Thanks again for your help.
  • vetofunk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Yes, but they are very "cranky" there. Make sure you read the guidelines. You need to tell them and make a link to your site, and then the place where you submitted it to (category wise) and make a link to the actual category. Lastly you need to tell them the date you submitted it.
  • Grogger
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Glad I asked ... yikes!
  • vetofunk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

But, def do it. Youll find out right away on the status of your site. Besides that, there is nothing you can do to get your site listed quicker. I am an editor there, but for only 2 small categories, otherwise I would try to help.
  • Grogger
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Post 3+ Months Ago

you've been a big enough help already, and I really appreciate it. Will post tomorrow and see what I can find out.

Regards,
Matt
  • Grogger
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Post 3+ Months Ago

vetofunk,

Posted and got the reply ...

"The submission is awaiting editorial review."

Is 3 months an unreasonable amount of time to wait? What are my next steps?
  • vetofunk
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Yep, thats what you usually hear. I have been waiting almost 4 months for 2 of my sites now. It all depends on the category. There is really nothing else you can do.
  • Grogger
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Post 3+ Months Ago

vetofunk,
Curious how much time one needs to devote to be an effective DMOZ editor? Is it something you'd recommend? Thoughts?

Thanks
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Post 3+ Months Ago

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