New Google patent for Historical information.

  • phaugh
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Here yee here yee ...read all about it:
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Par ... 0050071741
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  • mighty b
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i was actually thinking about this the other day...
  • madmonk
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what a long patent..
  • rtchar
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Evaluation - Google Patent for Historical Information

What I found interesting is that this document lays out the problems that Google is wrestling with, and "potential solutions".

This patent addresses at least three major problems:
1. Stale Documents
- A large reduction in traffic may indicate that a document may be stale
- a document whose content is edited often may be scored differently

2. Link Spam
- dates that links appear can also be used to detect "spam,"
- a large number of links to individual documents may indicate a potentially synthetic web graph, which is an indicator of an attempt to spam
- A typical, "legitimate" document attracts back links slowly.
- rate that the document moves in the rankings
- may actually lower the score of a document(s) to reduce the effect of spamming

3. Expired Domains
- whether the domain associated with the document is legitimate
- an indication that there has been an update or even a change of focus in the document
- changed owners and previous document indicators, such as score, anchor text, etc., are no longer reliable

Some of these items are probably already part of the algorithm --- some need a little more work. Also be aware that Google may not want to tip their hand on future changes ... the description may be exactly the opposite of the implementation.

There are even a couple of (controversial) references that may refer to other technologies:

NEW Toolbar Feature?
ยท For example, a search engine may monitor data maintained or generated by a user, such as "bookmarks," "favorites," or other types of data that may provide some indication of documents favored by, or of interest to, the user.

Click Fraud Detection?
A search engine may monitor time-varying characteristics relating to "advertising traffic" for a particular document.... the extent to which the advertisements generate user traffic to the documents to which they relate (e.g., their click-through rate).
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Quote:
[0090] Additionally, or alternatively, search engine 125 may monitor time-varying characteristics relating to "advertising traffic" for a particular document. For example, search engine 125 may monitor one or a combination of the following factors: (1) the extent to and rate at which advertisements are presented or updated by a given document over time; (2) the quality of the advertisers (e.g., a document whose advertisements refer/link to documents known to search engine 125 over time to have relatively high traffic and trust, such as amazon.com, may be given relatively more weight than those documents whose advertisements refer to low traffic/untrustworthy documents, such as a pornographic site); and (3) the extent to which the advertisements generate user traffic to the documents to which they relate (e.g., their click-through rate). Search engine 125 may use these time-varying characteristics relating to advertising traffic to score the document.


Bingo... I've said for a LONG time that sites using google tools (google search, adsense advertizing etc), have been boosted by doing so - and I think it fair to say that this shows that to be likelihood now, not mere hypothesis...!
  • phaugh
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"Also be aware that Google may not want to tip their hand on future changes ... the description may be exactly the opposite of the implementation." ...ya think so?

If they are using a technology they need to protect it...if they don't define it in the patent then someone else could, and google would have to stop using it....just a thought.
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if it's patent protected, they can sue... of course, proving infringement on a ranking algo within a competitor wouldn't be easy, but various elements are so vague, they apply to practically every current MAJOR engine out there...
  • phaugh
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But viewed as a whole their algo is unique and can't be reproduced. So if they patented the technology to do something but actually do the opposite they have no protection and someone else could apply for the patent.

IBM owns the patent for temporal link analysis (TLA) so googel can't be using it.

from semoz: "TLA purports to help search engines return more relevant results by adding a time analysis component to the value of a link. However, if speculation about the 'sandbox' factor holds true, it would suggest that TLA is not yet being included in Google's algorithm, or that sites suffering from sandboxing are not benefiting from it. In the same thread, Orion points out that the TLA patent is currently held by IBM, so it is likely not a part of any search engine algorithm at this point."

Sources: http://www.socengine.com/seo/guide/sand ... ilter.html
and
http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/sho ... #post21947
  • rtchar
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Quote:
Bingo... I've said for a LONG time that sites using google tools (google search, adsense advertizing etc), have been boosted by doing so


I am not sure that is what they are saying ... I thought monitor time-varying characteristics relating to "advertising traffic" for a particular document meant they would use this data for two purposes:

Outside the normal range for ALL sites?
1. Monitor for click fraud (if too high)
2. Stale documents (if too low)

Quote:
If they are using a technology they need to protect it...if they don't define it in the patent then someone else could


What I was trying to say is the "defined technology" may be used for purposes other than what they stated in the examples. Like the potential to add online bookmarks to the TOOLBAR ... then use that data in ranking results.

Quote:
various elements are so vague, they apply to practically every current MAJOR engine out there


That is true ... but the combination, underlying formula, and implementation must be unique and that is why the patent was requested.
  • webyourbusiness
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rtchar wrote:
I am not sure that is what they are saying ... I thought monitor time-varying characteristics relating to "advertising traffic" for a particular document meant they would use this data for two purposes:

Outside the normal range for ALL sites?
1. Monitor for click fraud (if too high)
2. Stale documents (if too low)


Time monitoring characteristics can mean visitors to a seasonal page (like a valentines web site, christmas site, hannukah site, etc) - time being a seasonal matter - or - sites to with activities traditionally carried out in the morning, evening etc, time as in time of the day.... this can be as simply as supplying ads relevant to dinner as opposed to breakfast...

Or...

time can simply have not much to do with it, but be used merely as a justification as to why a site ranks higher/lower NOW, rather than YESTERDAY, or TOMORROW - based on any number of factors - such as - YESTERDAY this site didn't link to us... TODAY it does - PR jumps from 5 to 6 and the site leaps 100 positions in the SERPs...


rtchar wrote:
Quote:
If they are using a technology they need to protect it...if they don't define it in the patent then someone else could


What I was trying to say is the "defined technology" may be used for purposes other than what they stated in the examples. Like the potential to add online bookmarks to the TOOLBAR ... then use that data in ranking results.


Online bookmarks aren't a factor at the moment - but may become one as a way to move your favorites becomes tied into to biometric or key type system - just as logging into the windows network with roaming desktop handles it... that might be a nice future toolbar feature - take your bookmarks/favorites with you.

In the short term, I think it more likely that they are spying on whatever you bookmark in your browser in the more traditional manner - using that information as some kind of judgement call to say "sites that are bookmarked are worth more than those which are NOT bookmarked".


rtchar wrote:
Quote:
various elements are so vague, they apply to practically every current MAJOR engine out there


That is true ... but the combination, underlying formula, and implementation must be unique and that is why the patent was requested.


I know... but change ONE or TWO small things, and the whole index will be RADICALLY different - so how do you PROVE that someone is using the same factors to determine their index with slightly different parameters - once you have a couple of hundred factors involved, the number of ways to make one engine's results different to anothers is staggering...
  • phaugh
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"What I was trying to say is the "defined technology" may be used for purposes other than what they stated in the examples. Like the potential to add online bookmarks to the TOOLBAR ... then use that data in ranking results. " ..I get it now ;)

Wouldn't it be easy to run a javascript in the on load event that bookmarks your site when someone visits it.....maybe we all need to use spyware...lol
  • rtchar
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This paragraph is the stuff where myths and legends come from ... but you have to remember ... Google's mission is to provide relevant results to search requests.

You may be right about seasonal or time sensitive results (It is mentioned else where in the patent). But how does that relate to "advertising traffic"?

There can be several interpretations for ...
Quote:
the extent to and rate at which advertisements are presented or updated


Too many ads, frequent popups could be taken as spam (lower ranked).

Long periods of not changing ads could mean a stale document (lower ranked).

Adwords on every page of a site could be considered spam (lower ranked)

All ads pointing to a single site means affiliate (ranked lower)

Quote:
a document whose advertisements refer/link to documents known to search engine 125 over time to have relatively high traffic and trust, such as amazon.com, may be given relatively more weight


Page rank for outbound links? I doubt it ... any one could link to the Whitehouse to improve ranking, no one can control backlinks. More likely, not keeping well known ads up-to-date signals stale documents.

Quote:
the extent to which the advertisements generate user traffic to the documents to which they relate (e.g., their click-through rate)


Like I said before Click Fraud or Stale document indicators.

Quote:
Online bookmarks aren't a factor at the moment - but may become one as a way to move your favorites


Check out http://www.mybookmarks.com

Google has a lot of space available for users (AKA - Gmail) why not bookmarks.
  • webyourbusiness
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ok - that mybookmarks thing - it's more of a pain to use than useful if you ask me - actually the webmail system we install on our servers allows users to maintain notes and bookmarks I think, so that's "preferable", as at least your email and favorites are in the SAME place. What I was actually getting at is some kind of biometric logon COMBINED with a google toolbar equipped machine might trigger the AUTOMATIC retrieval of your favorites, your email connections, your whole desktop even - and squirt them down a broadband connection to ANY machine you login ANYWHERE... bring that with some kind of workable VPN tunnelling to your office and home machines and you have a REAL pc-anywhere type environment.... we're not QUITE there, but the combination of a number of technologies, and a few more fiber connections and it certain MIGHT become a reality....

If google becomes a facilitator of such a system, I see no reason why it would NOT become a fairly trivial addition to the gmail system - quite probably as a paid addition for "premium" users - get yourself some kind of USB key as part of signup and you have some hardware for local storage of some of the weightier types of the data add that to a mere login/password and you have a workable system in only a few weeks of programming.

Next we'll all be carrying Google-Life Pass-Key's around multi-colored necklaces or attached to our key-chains... wait and see if it doesn't occur something like that.... all of us techies becoming walking talking google-life adverts....
  • rtchar
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Quote:
ok - that mybookmarks thing - it's more of a pain to use than useful if you ask me


I guess I should have said that this is offered only as proof of concept and not an endorsement of their product. I am sure Google would add their own improvements and features.

Quote:
your email and favorites are in the SAME place.


You are probably right ... as an add on feature to Gmail it would be more universally available then the toolbar. Now that makes sense. :lol:

Quote:
If google becomes a facilitator of such a system, I see no reason why it would NOT become a fairly trivial addition to the gmail system


While certainly futuristic I don't think all that technology is necessary to simply store favorites online. With all that storage space available online, I am sure we will see some innovative web based applications coming from Google.
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Question for rtchar.... How much are you making off of that dog tags web site? You rank 5 well done, but was it worth the time? are you making ok money off the web site..?
  • rtchar
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No comments on personal business ...

But thanks for noticing 8)
  • webyourbusiness
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From the google patent:

e.g., a document whose advertisements refer/link to documents known to search engine 125 over time to have relatively high traffic and trust, such as amazon.com, may be given relatively more weight than those documents whose advertisements refer to low traffic/untrustworthy documents, such as a pornographic site); and (3) the extent to which the advertisements generate user traffic to the documents to which they relate (e.g., their click-through rate)

Clearly - higher traffic advertisers are "more relevant" - according to the above - if I spend lots of money to advertize my services, I will be ranked as "more relevant" - ie, organic boost - at least, that's how I read it...

ymmv
  • rtchar
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Yeah this paragraph is going to start rumors and myths for years to come ...

Page rank for backlinks ... ??
To be honest it is not likely to be implemented in this form. It would be far too easy to put an unauthorized ad on my site.

I am convinced that Google is hiding the real meaning of this paragraph. It would be far easier to penalize ads for "bad neighborhoods".
  • webyourbusiness
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rtchar wrote:
Yeah this paragraph is going to start rumors and myths for years to come ...

Page rank for backlinks ... ??
To be honest it is not likely to be implemented in this form. It would be far too easy to put an unauthorized ad on my site.

I am convinced that Google is hiding the real meaning of this paragraph. It would be far easier to penalize ads for "bad neighborhoods".


myth or not, I'm hearing other webmasters with google adwords campaigns claiming that their site organic searches appear to be on fast track compared to those that are not.

As always - ymmv!
  • rtchar
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I thought I would check out your theory so I did an informal survey for several of my keywords ....

Adwords only appears on 1 out of the top 10 sites (averages #3).

Maybe some others could check and see how their results stack up?
  • webyourbusiness
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I've just checked one of our top keywords....

business web site design

5 of the 10 have adsense running on their sites
3 more have other major advertising systems

another...

business web design

7 have adsense
2 have other major ad systems

Actually - the first search I did, might have more adsense, I found a couple where I could NOT find the adsense ads - I think they are div'd off the page to gain ranking without being visible!
  • rtchar
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Well I guess adwords is more important on service sites than retail sites.

Sort of makes sense though.... if you don't have a product to sell or use a shopping cart. We all like to make some money from our efforts. :)
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I don't think it's a services vs products thing... I think it's the popularity of the topic...

search for cheap cialis, or cheap viagra - most of the top results are going to have massive amounts of ads - some google, some not - but by linking to the major players in the online drugs, they are boosted it seems.

I'm trying a hidden adsense div for a month - then on another site, I'm trying links to major companies we work with - see how that compares...

all in name of seo and that now infamous google aglo... ;)

regards

GHL
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Let us know how it works out for you .... :)
  • webyourbusiness
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first results, not so hot - then I remembered that I'd also altered a page title - reversing that out and finding another, unaltered page to perform the experiment on -I might also NOT use one of our own! ;)

regards

GHL
  • rtchar
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Guess we have our answer about online bookmarks ...

https://www.google.com/searchhistory/login

Quote:
Remember what you saw on Google, no matter where you are.

My Search History lets you easily view and manage your search history from any computer. This feature of Google web search enables you to find information you thought you lost. And over time, you'll see an increasing number of relevance indicators in your search results that help you find the information you want.
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although it's by consent, it's definitely getting to the point of being a little scary now... as you've provided a bunch of private information to register for those accounts....
  • rtchar
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Remember how I was saying Google may hide the real meaning of the process described in the patent?

Quote:
For example, a search engine may monitor data maintained or generated by a user, such as "bookmarks," "favorites," or other types of data that may provide some indication of documents favored by, or of interest to, the user.


Turns out "other types of data " may have been describing Search History :lol:

Guess you really do have to read BETWEEN the lines.
  • webyourbusiness
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It's hardly between the lines - that's about as in plain sight as it it's possible to be without spelling it out for you... at least I'm feeling justified in removing my google toolbar now...

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