Internet Advancement .com???

  • Redcell
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Ok we are finally to the point were we are shopping for a SEO firm. These guys have been trying to beat down our door for a while now, has anyone heard anything about these guys? Their prices where pretty good, but one thing I didn't like is the sales guys said something about changing our meta tags so that the spiders come to their servers where they have an optimised mirror of our site? Anyone heard of this? I would also be open to suggestions about other companys. Thanks guys!
Ian
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Somewhere in the back of my mind, I seem to recall reading that's frowned upon by the engines, however, I'll let others confirm that. My suspicion and first question would be what are they charging you to host the mirror site? I would be concerned that it's simply a ploy to get you to pay an ongoing rate for them hosting a mirror, when they could simply apply that same optimization to your real site to begin with. Something just smells fishy about it.
  • gardenstew
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Optimised mirror of your site on their server? Red flag, red flag! No reputable SEO firm would suggest this. The site should be optimized on your server, not theirs. They should not make a mirror of your site. Run for the hillls!
  • Sheepdip
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Redcell,

I do not have any connection to, or work with this firm, but I have met several firms (and work with one) who use this "SEO Code of Ethics" as a guide for SEO practices.

Check it out, if it does nothing else, it will help you filter out those who use sketchy tactics.

http://www.bruceclay.com/web_ethics.htm
  • Shawn
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Do not go with any company that does anything remotely like that.
  • Jess
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I think the fact that they are having to bash down your door to get your custom should tell you something isn't right.

Shop around, ask people for recomendtions, ask for client lists of past projects the seo firm has undertaken and take the time to contact their past clients. Thats the best advice I could give anyone looking to hire a firm. There is a lot of scammers out there, don't let them have your money.
  • Redcell
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I think I gave the wrong impression, this company may not build a mirror site on their servers I just understood it that way. Also what I meant by "busting down our door" is that the sals guys has been good about getting to know us and keeping in touch with us. He has sent me a ton of client testimonials and their phone #'s to contact them as well. I talked to him some more today and he said the pages are called Directory Information Pages (D.I.P.'s) and they are for "submission multiplication". At least thats what he said. He also said that they would do something like 510,000 monthly submissions. If you go to their site which is their name InternetAdvancement and .com (don't want to give them a link) and check out their "warranties" page, he boasted a lot about how great that was too. Some one check it out and let me know if its really all he said it is. Below is the meta info from a site that was done by them. If you notice it says "Start IA Modifications" and "End IA Modifications" this might give you pros a better idea of what he means by "re-directing the spiders"...
Thanks Everyone!
Oh and send me the names of the companys you have worked with and are good companys, we haven't made any decisions yet!

Ian

Quote:
<html>
<head>
<!-- Begin IA Modifications -->
<title>Autococker, WGP Trilogy autococker paintball gun, MacDev Cyborg</title>
<META NAME="MSSmartTagsPreventParsing" CONTENT="TRUE">
<META NAME="keywords" CONTENT="autococker, autococker paintball, macdev cyborg, autococker
paintball gun, cyborg by macdev,WGP Trilogy, Trilogy Autococker, PRO, SPORT, Competition, autococker paintball gun,autococker body, autococker body kit, wgp,
wgp paintball, wgp autococker">
<META NAME="description" CONTENT="autococker, autococker paintball, macdev cyborg, autococker
paintball gun, cyborg by macdev,WGP Trilogy, Trilogy Autococker, PRO, SPORT, Competition, autococker paintball gun,autococker body, autococker body kit, wgp,
wgp paintball, wgp autococker">
<META NAME="rating" CONTENT="General">
<META NAME="MS.LOCALE" CONTENT="EN-US">
<META NAME="CATEGORY" CONTENT="home page">
<META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,follow">
<META http-equiv="Classification" CONTENT="autococker">
<META NAME="URL" CONTENT="http://www.madcocker.com">
<META NAME="revisit-after" CONTENT="31 days">
<META NAME="VW96.objecttype" CONTENT="autococker, autococker paintball, macdev cyborg, autococker
paintball gun, cyborg by macdev,WGP Trilogy, Trilogy Autococker, PRO, SPORT, Competition, autococker paintball gun,autococker body, autococker body kit, wgp,
wgp paintball, wgp autococker">
<META NAME="DC.Title" CONTENT="Autococker, 2005 WGP Trilogy autococker paintball gun, MacDev Cyborg">
<META NAME="DC.Subject" CONTENT="autococker, autococker paintball, macdev cyborg, autococker
paintball gun, cyborg by macdev,WGP Trilogy, Trilogy Autococker, PRO, SPORT, Competition, autococker paintball gun,autococker body, autococker body kit, wgp,
wgp paintball, wgp autococker">
<META NAME="DC.Description" CONTENT="autococker, autococker paintball, macdev cyborg, autococker
paintball gun, cyborg by macdev,WGP Trilogy, Trilogy Autococker, PRO, SPORT, Competition, autococker paintball gun,autococker body, autococker body kit, wgp,
wgp paintball, wgp autococker">
<META NAME="DC.Coverage.PlaceName" CONTENT="Global">
<!--
macdev cyborg,
autococker, cyborg by macdev,2005 WGP Trilogy autococker paintball gun, autococker paintball, autococker paintball gun, autococker
upgrades, autococker body, autococker body kit, autococker timing, wgp, wgp
paintball, wgp autococker, ans autococker, dye autococker, worr game
products, paintball supplies, paintball guns
-->
<!-- End IA Modifications -->
  • Jess
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Post 3+ Months Ago

There are a few things that don't sound right to me ... Now understand I am probably the most sceptical person in the world and I know that! But just some thoughts -


Firstly I look at their site - it doesn't appear for the term seo, or the term seo firm, or the term seo company or the term search engine optimization.... need I go on.


Then theres the fact that they said they are going to submit your site to hundreds upon thousands of websites every month

Well how comes there own site only has 18 backlinks then?

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n ... ment%2Ecom

Seem a little odd to you? It does me. Now i know there are a lot of directories around but 500,000 every month? Where are they planning to submit your site to? Because in two months you should be expecting your site to be listed on about a million sites then..... Which is obviously never going to happen. It's pointless resubmitting to the same places....

So my guess is they will submit you to FFA's.... Save your money, you can do that free here - http://www.worldwidepromoter.com it's complete and utter waste of time and will result in you just being bombed by spam.

The meta tags you have posted as their example are WAY over the top - you only need title, description, keywords and maybe a revisit tag if thats what takes ya fancy. the other tags are not gonna help you one little bit.

Then I look at the clients list and i see rankings like

1 - 10 of 184 Results for camtracker and their only placed at number 7 ...

if they can only get number 7 for 184 results I would hate to think what placements you could expect from a million results...... BTW thats with alltheweb as well - no real achievements with google for past clients??

I can only go on what I see - but it would scare me that they are just achieving for un-competitive phrases and then saying ("well we have delivered, your in the top ten") Sure you are, but for phrases that are not going to be actively searched for.

A look at the warranties and they have so many loop holes its scary -

Quote:
WARRANTY.
3.1 Warranty. Company warrants that Client will obtain the promised results within 108 days of the Effective Date. Client shall not perform or allow (e.g.,by a webmaster or hosting company.) any changes to Company's optimized source code once it has been inserted into Client's web page specified herein, nor shall Client perform or allow any additional standard submissions of said web page to any search engines, nor shall Client perform or allow Company's optimized source code to be inserted into any web page other than the page specified in this Agreement, without the prior knowledge and approval of Company. Client shall not fail to perform (or prevent Company from performing) correct insertion of all of Company's optimized source code into the web page specified herein. Any such actions on the part of Client as described in this Section of this Agreement shall void this warranty. It is the sole responsibility of the client to monitor said website to ensure the accurate and consistent placement of the source code provided by the Company.


So lets get this right, you can't change any of the modified code, or the warrenty is void (are you allowed to update your site?), you can't submit your site to any engines or directories yourself, or the warrenty is void......

The funny thing to me is tho, it looks like there expecting your meta tags to get you to the top of the engines with all this talk about how you cannot "modify the optimized code" ... maybe back in the 90's....

I'm sorry - I have probably been a little out of order here but i hate hearing stories of people paying out money to firms who just give excuses. I'm not saying don't work with the company (they are probably very legit), im not saying work with them. I just wanted to point of some things that would probably scare me away very quickly.
  • Redcell
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
I'm sorry - I have probably been a little out of order here


No way! Thats awesome that you were willing to check into this for me! All the above points are great things to think about! Ok so I am back to square one with no SEO firm to work with any suggestions?
Ian
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Just another point...

I truly believe that a good way to weed out dodgy SEO firms is to look for a few specific things on the company's website. For example on the website in question they maintain the same page title on every one of their pages. This is a bad sign, straight away. Page titles are among the most powerful weapons in an SEO's arsenal. They should be unique and descriptive, optimized with keywords. The saying 'Practice what you preach' comes to mind.
  • Jess
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Post 3+ Months Ago

If I had to reccomend an seo firm right now, I can highly reccomend seoguy.com

I have never worked with them, however I have heard nothing but praise from their clients. We compete against some of their clients sites for specific keywords and it always a good match up between us both in 1st and 2nd places, so they must be doing something right :)

I'm sure some other people will have some suggestions also

Also it could be worth talking to people like vetofunk - I don't know how his firm is fixed up but i'd trust him with any site of mine :)
  • mr_darek
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Post 3+ Months Ago

If the firm is based in Seattle, Washington, walk away from this asap.

http://www.ozzu.com/other-search-engines/internet-company-told-refund-clients-t29792.html
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Post 3+ Months Ago

*lol -- thanks mr_darek

I knew something kept nagging in the back of my mind about this. Now I remember why. Appreciate the link.
  • Jess
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Looks like my instinct was right ;)

Thanks for the link Mr_darek
  • gardenstew
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Great find Data, i mean mr_darek :)
  • Redcell
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
She said the Attorney General's Office, the Federal Trade Commission and the Better Business Bureau received more than 100 complaints from customers around the country.


WOW! Good find! Thanks! I can't imagine this company still trying to do business after this? It is the same company though! See it pays to research this stuff. Thanks again!
  • Sheepdip
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Redcell,

I have met with about 8 SEO firms in the past 18 months. I don't know them all (and I will check out Jess's recommendation), but I feel very comfortable with four so far. 1) BruceClay.com 2) SageRock.com 3) PrairieWeb.com (not sure if they do SEO specifically, but I would trust working with them to manage site development and marketing). The fourth recommendation that I would make would be OneUpWeb. We use one of those four and we have been impressed by our results.

If you are near a SearchEngineStrategies conference, I would highly recommend going even if you do not attend any sessions. I spent a day there talking to firms (in the vendor section) and learned more about the personalities of the companies than I ever expected to. This was very important to us as we wanted to make sure that we found a company that would work with us as a partner and not one that would just use us for our competitor list so that they could cold call all of them. Beware of those that are more interested in how they can use you rather than how they can meet your needs. :) (I met several at the SES conference)

I also learned that there are vast differences in how SEO's operate. Pricing, technology, "plans of attack," can all vary significantly. The reason that I mention the four firms above is because all four of those firms were up front about how they would work with our site, and did not apologize or skirt questions about the techniques that they would use. Others concentrated on the amount of my budget and then played the booze card thinking that I would be a shoe in. They were wrong, and I would be happy to expose their names to you if you want to know who they are. Oh, to clarify, many offered a post-conference party, but some were so obsessed with partying with me that they were bragging on how great a time I would have if I chose with them, as if it had something to do with the quality of their work!?! In abnormal psychology, we had a name for those people... ALCOHOLICS. Sorry, little off-the-subject rant there. :|

Ok, continuing...

Don't always look at past success or "the biggest player" in the SEO market. I quickly learned that some of the old and obese SEO firms were obese because they got in early and had early success, but haven't learned anything new since then. I have met with at least two firms like this, and both firms knew little about SEO, but a lot about how to hound you until you gave in and said yes. It may work in New York, but in the midwest, we have learned the value of "I will call you if we ever need your services." :)

Fortunately, BruceClay.com was one who has been in the business a long time, but has not stopped learning. I guess that is what happens when you build a firm on people who survive on new technology and not on what wild twist they will provide at their next regional party. They are so technology-driven that they could barely contain themselves when I started talking about our project. You could see the wheels spinning -- it was pretty cool. :) (yes, even Bruce Clay himself)

SageRock impressed me with their over-the-top honesty and openness about how they work. They also were very open about their practices and desire to see us succeed. They also impressed me because at the time, they actually showed up when you searched for SEO in Google. They also sought to learn about us and our markets before optimizing anything. They made no promises about results, rather said that results come from using ethical practices. Of all of the firms, SageRock only takes on a certain number of long-term "partners" (customers) so that they never sacrifice quality for quantity.

PWIM.com (PrairieWeb) was impressive because they were on top of their game in many ways. They were 1) transparent about their approach, 2) interested in offering only the services that they felt were complimentary to your project, and 3) they knew what they were talking about. I spoke to "Brian" and he was all over my needs. He understood and agreed on how, why, and when we needed things done. He impressed me with their arsenal of products and services and didn't try to be the "be-all and end-all" of technology services.

Finally, OneUpWeb had a great direction and desire to apply to our project. They were a little different in that they used good marketing practice and expertise along side of SEO so that you could maximize your investment with them. (basically, you didn't need a marketing expert and an SEO expert, you got both with them) If you are working as eBusiness, using them might be a good opportunity to add flair at the same time that you add good rankings.

Ok, this is all my opinion, and subject to discussion and criticism. I will admit that not all of the firms that I mentioned are the most popular, but from what I know of them, we could have gone with any of them and I am confident that we would have been impressed by the results.
  • Jess
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Post 3+ Months Ago

great post sheepdip :)
  • Redcell
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Thanks for the info!
The guy from Internet Advancement called me back yesterday, I told him that I would not be interested in using their services due to what had happened with them last summer. He got quite for a while then told me "well we have moved on from that and when you have 4000 customers that kind of stuff happens". So none the less I told him thanks anyway and we will contact you if we have anymore question about your services. I just can't imagine being a salesman for a company that was publicly sued for being dishonest and lost. I felt bad for the guy, but what do they think people aren't going to research their business practices? They were kicked out of the BBB! Anyways thanks again, you guys probably saved us a lot of money not to mention time!
  • gardenstew
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Wish you all the best Redcell.
  • Sheepdip
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Redcell wrote:
...Anyways thanks again, you guys probably saved us a lot of money not to mention time!,

You're welcome. I'm just glad that you didn't get "burned!" I'm sure I can speak for everyone in saying that we're all better off for being able to seek help through one another at OZZU. :)

gardenstew wrote:
Wish you all the best Redcell.

I second that. :)
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Post 3+ Months Ago

thanks sheepdip for the interesting read
I enjoyed it :-)
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I agree with the others and wish you the best Redcell, but now that this has been obviously resolved I think it best to end this discussion. I think we have covered the downsides of this particular company well enough. If anyone has other SEO company suggestions for Redcell, PM or Email them.

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