Newbie Linux Question.

  • swanniebroo
  • Beginner
  • Beginner
  • swanniebroo
  • Posts: 64

Post 3+ Months Ago

What programs can be run on a Linux. can it run exe's and dmg's or does it run its own program list, like microsoft and apple. really new to all this linux lark.
Swanniebroo
  • Anonymous
  • Bot
  • No Avatar
  • Posts: ?
  • Loc: Ozzuland
  • Status: Online

Post 3+ Months Ago

  • kc0tma
  • o|||||||o
  • Web Master
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 3318
  • Loc: Trout Creek, MT

Post 3+ Months Ago

There is a program called wine that allows you to install windows executables, but I've never used it so I can't say how well it really works. I've never heard of anyone running mac dmg's, but I'm sure there must be some way to do it. Usually, you get software as source code, then install it according to directions in the README file (usually just ./configure, then make, make test, make install, make clean). Depending on your linux flavor, if it is redhat or fedora or Suse, you can also get rpm packages, which are usually just one command to install. Debian and ubuntu also have their own special software packages that are similar.
  • Janrocks
  • Graduate
  • Graduate
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 165
  • Loc: between

Post 3+ Months Ago

Wine is bad news.. 99% of so called supported applications don't work well if at all. I have never managed to get anything to work properly. It's probably easier (and faster) to find and install native linux applications..

Just about every piece of mac software (unix based after all) has a linux parallel application.

Whatever distro you decide on... use the software managers.. because installing from source can be a nightmare as other updates will just break it every time.

Installing from source is something you do when there is no other choice.. not all the time,
  • spork
  • Brewmaster
  • Silver Member
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 6252
  • Loc: Seattle, WA

Post 3+ Months Ago

To answer the original question, many mainstream Linux distributions use things called "package managers" that help to manage your software. Applications usually come in packages, such as RPM files on systems such as RedHat and Fedora. These don't work like Windows executables or Mac apps. The packages work similarly to the installers that you download for many Windows applications.

Linux applications are still "executable" files just like in Windows, but they can only be executed in Unix/Linux environments, and usually don't end in ".exe".

You should never really be compiling programs from source on a package-based distribution unless there is absolutely no alternative. For whatever distro you are/will be using, simply use the package manager to install/update/uninstall software.
  • swanniebroo
  • Beginner
  • Beginner
  • swanniebroo
  • Posts: 64

Post 3+ Months Ago

Ok, next noob question. Is linux completely command-based, like MS-DOS (sorry, atm im completely microsoft-based). I am asking these because I am considering getting an ASUS EPC, which only has enough memory to run linux on, but it is small and lightweight.

Swanniebroo
  • spork
  • Brewmaster
  • Silver Member
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 6252
  • Loc: Seattle, WA

Post 3+ Months Ago

There's nothing requiring you to install a graphical environment. In fact, most common distributions give you the option to perform a "minimal" installation, which will only install the bare essentials necessary to run the system. From there, you can add packages as you need them, such as servers and utilities, all of which would be controlled via the terminal.
  • kc0tma
  • o|||||||o
  • Web Master
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 3318
  • Loc: Trout Creek, MT

Post 3+ Months Ago

The thing to remember is that quite a bit of the graffical utilities are just an interface to run a shell command or a text based program, the gui makes it easier and faster for us users.

I can't remember if this is the right name or not, but there is a desktop environment called x-windows (correct?) that is made to use less system resources. I think that is the right name, but I'm not sure.
  • Janrocks
  • Graduate
  • Graduate
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 165
  • Loc: between

Post 3+ Months Ago

X-Windows is really the underlying window managment system, often overlaid with a nice graphical desktop application such as gnome or kde. You only usually see the x-windows interface when you do a raw BSD type installation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System

All linux distros come with the x-server installed, and then there is a choice.. debian uses gnome, suse/fedora use KDM and some of the others use Xfce. The minimal installations tend to use fluxbox instead, with rox as a file manager and icon set.

Unless you are trying to build a minimalist linux desktop system from scratch you don't really need to worry about any of this stuff.. Just install the default base system and desktop environment that comes with your distro as it will all be setup and ready to go ;)

You can always dump any bloat things you never need afterwards, as it's usually faster to just let things install than it is to root around trying to fix all the dependencies for some little application that looked so simple at the start (trust me on this.. I built a full gui desktop machine from nothing to run in 32Mb of ram using fluxbox and rox.. it was a dependencies nightmare)
  • X3ndou
  • Proficient
  • Proficient
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 263
  • Loc: New Jersey

Post 3+ Months Ago

Lots of really stupid things said here.

First of all, Wine works. If you've never gotten anything to work with it, you're obviously an idiot. I've gotten Photoshop 7 and GTA3:VC to work on it, as well as a lot of other stuff I don't feel like listing here.

Second - Linux is not primarily command line based however you should know alot about the Linux command line as it makes your life as a linux user much easier. X Windows is the underlying window system but on top of that are different window managers - some examples are KDE, Gnome, and Xfce. Those are three of the most popular ones; but there are of course many many more. If you'd like to see some examples of Linux desktops you can look here:

http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/shots.xml

Gentoo is not a good flavour of Linux for noobs but they have a lot of diverse screenshots there that use different window managers.

If you'd like an easier linux distro to start with, check out Ubuntu. It uses Gnome.
  • artorious
  • Newbie
  • Newbie
  • artorious
  • Posts: 6

Post 3+ Months Ago

I would have to agree with X3ndou. Wine works well for me, at least for the most part. There are some things that don't work so well, such as Adobe or Macromedia applications. I also agree with his statement that linux is not primarily command line based. There are several different desktop environments that allow you to have a GUI.

I, myself, use Ubuntu, but I'd also recommend openSuse to anyone who is new to Linux. However, the best way to learn is to dive right in. I learned a lot about Linux just by install Gentoo.
  • kc0tma
  • o|||||||o
  • Web Master
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 3318
  • Loc: Trout Creek, MT

Post 3+ Months Ago

Quote:
X-Windows is really the underlying window managment system, often overlaid with a nice graphical desktop application such as gnome or kde.


Was I thinking of Xfce? I think that sounds a little bit better.

Quote:
Lots of really stupid things said here.

Linux is not primarily command line based...


Simmer down now! I've kind of though of linux and kde/gnome in comparison to old DOS 6.22 and Windows 3.1. DOS was the actual operating system, it was the part that did all the work and windows 3.1 was just a program that ran within it. Kde and gnome do nothing without the kernel and the file system, and we cant run the graffical interface without a command shell, so it must be pretty reliant on the command line. Now somebody might argue that windows XP or 2000 isn't command line based, well thats true. The graffical environment is built into the operating system, the way things run depend on that. One more chunk of food for thought is this: When a linux system breaks, why do we have to know the ins and outs of the command line to get it back going? The same with the windows safe mode with a dos prompt too.
  • AnarchY SI
  • Web Master
  • Web Master
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 2521
  • Loc: /usr/src/MI

Post 3+ Months Ago

kc0tma wrote:
Simmer down now! I've kind of though of linux and kde/gnome in comparison to old DOS 6.22 and Windows 3.1. DOS was the actual operating system, it was the part that did all the work and windows 3.1 was just a program that ran within it. Kde and gnome do nothing without the kernel and the file system, and....



No operating system runs without a kernel :] or a file system for that matter.

Wine is not 99% useless. I just got out of World of Warcraft run through - tah dah :] wine.
Adobe & Macromedia products do run with wine. CS2 doesn't run, but dreamweaver / flash pro from mx -> cs3 DO run with wine and all you have to do to instal it is type "wine Dreamweaver8-en.exe" next next next next finish coder and its done. (as an ex).

if something has 'problems' running in wine or if you dont want to muck with some configuration that other programs do for you, there are alternatives (cedega which is aimed towards running windows games on linux & crossover office which is aimed at a multitude of applications).

running linux - you WILL become familiar with the command line. theres no getting around it, because the first time the x server crashes and your stuck at: login: _(blink) you say 'oh *plum*'. and are forced to figure out how to fix it or reinstall, and then figure out how to fix it in case it happens again >.< some tasks are also faster to accomplish via the command line. i often uncompress files and move files and folders around via command line because i dont want to have to do all that clicking as i type MUCH faster than i click ^_^

installing software in linux is drastically different than in windows. but in some ways it is SO much easier and more convenient. suse has a web page with a 1 click install option now, and it is b-e-a-utiful. most if not all distro's have a package manager, where you search "dvd" and it brings up a bountiful list of juicy codecs & players that you get to install, simply by clicking the checkbox next to it or the add to queue button.

if you check out the stickied post there is quite the list of linux replacements for common windows applications so if you're lost for what you want - start there. there are also plenty of other lists floating around the internet that google will gladly provide for you.

xfce is a more light weight 'gui' than gnome & kde, and there are SO many others. icebox, fluxbox, blackbox, jwm (joes window manager), enlightenment...the list goes on.

and just to be more clear..the biggest difference b/w DOS+windows and the command line in linux + a desktop manager is in linux its outrageously more advanced and 'pretty' if you will ^_^ there are SO many videos on youtube comparing windows vista with ubuntu+beryl or distro_x+beryl and windows l0ses every time :]


i didn't read everything that EVERYONE posted but ask more questions ^_^ lol
</end_rant>
  • kc0tma
  • o|||||||o
  • Web Master
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 3318
  • Loc: Trout Creek, MT

Post 3+ Months Ago

I'd have to agree about linux systems being more advanced than microsoft stuff, that is why you find linux being embedded into your microwave oven or something instead of vista ultimate or OS X Leopard. I think learning linux is better than learning windows as well. I had to configure IIS about a month ago, and even though I had somebody looking over my shoulder guiding my every move, I still think I would rather use apache, even if it is on a windows box.
  • ATNO/TW
  • Super Moderator
  • Super Moderator
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 23456
  • Loc: Woodbridge VA

Post 3+ Months Ago

X3ndou - for the record, there's no need to refer to other members here as idiots just because they are unable to make something work. I couldn't make the horn in my car shut off the other day short of pulling the fuse. But it doesn't mean I don't know how to drive.
  • Daemonguy
  • Moderator
  • Web Master
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 2700
  • Loc: Somewhere outside the box in Sarasota, FL.

Post 3+ Months Ago

X3ndou wrote:
Lots of really stupid things said here.

Notably, that.

X3ndou wrote:
First of all, Wine works. If you've never gotten anything to work with it, you're obviously an idiot. I've gotten Photoshop 7 and GTA3:VC to work on it, as well as a lot of other stuff I don't feel like listing here.


Yes, Wine does permit some older software to function, however "usability"is entirely perceived by the end-user. If everything I need to run does not work under Wine then I would consider it useless (insert defined percentage here). Just something to consider when castigating someone for defining their own scale.


X3ndou wrote:
Second - Linux is not primarily command line based however you should know alot about the Linux command line as it makes your life as a linux user much easier. X Windows is the underlying window system but on top of that are different window managers - some examples are KDE, Gnome, and Xfce. Those are three of the most popular ones; but there are of course many many more. If you'd like to see some examples of Linux desktops you can look here:


Actually, Linux *is* primarily command line based. Most (if not all) Linux distributions install the X-window substrate along with the ubiquitous Window Management System. However, that is not Linux. Additionally, X-windows is not 'underlying' anything -- technically it rides on top.


X3ndou wrote:
Gentoo is not a good flavour of Linux for noobs but they have a lot of diverse screenshots there that use different window managers.

If you'd like an easier linux distro to start with, check out Ubuntu. It uses Gnome.


I would be right careful whom you designate as 'noob'.

Primarily the point is this; a person new to the concept of 'alternate operating systems' wishes to learn some details about a variety they found appealing or at the very least interesting. Such queries should not prompt the vainglorious retort, brimming with imperious mockery, especially from those whose skills seem somewhat dubious.
  • AnarchY SI
  • Web Master
  • Web Master
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 2521
  • Loc: /usr/src/MI

Post 3+ Months Ago

<3Daemonguy
  • spork
  • Brewmaster
  • Silver Member
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 6252
  • Loc: Seattle, WA

Post 3+ Months Ago

kc0tma wrote:
I'd have to agree about linux systems being more advanced than microsoft stuff, that is why you find linux being embedded into your microwave oven or something instead of vista ultimate or OS X Leopard.

I'm pretty sure you find embedded Linux on devices because of two things: cost and scalability. Windows and OS X aren't designed to be run on such devices (yes, I know, the iPhone runs OS X; that's beside the point), and they cannot be modified or slimmed down to do such. Even if they could, Apple and Microsoft would charge a fortune for such a system compared to what any individual company could do with Linux using their own developers.
  • kc0tma
  • o|||||||o
  • Web Master
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 3318
  • Loc: Trout Creek, MT

Post 3+ Months Ago

OS X is unix based, but I kind of think they are targeting their marketing dollars on stuff other than robots and what not. Doesn't microsoft have the embedded XP that they use in those little thin clients? I guess if it had an operating system on it, it wouldn't be a thin client, maybe I should quit nit picking.
  • AnarchY SI
  • Web Master
  • Web Master
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 2521
  • Loc: /usr/src/MI

Post 3+ Months Ago

spork you forgot windows mobile. they put that on pdas and cell phones too >.<

Quote:
Doesn't microsoft have the embedded XP that they use in those little thin clients? I guess if it had an operating system on it, it wouldn't be a thin client, maybe I should quit nit picking.

plenty of electronic devices have OSs. i.e. cell phones, video game consoles, calculators, dvd players...

we should get back on topic :]
  • Janrocks
  • Graduate
  • Graduate
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 165
  • Loc: between

Post 3+ Months Ago

Where were we? Was it embedded systems like Symbian OS or general linux?

Thanks Daeminguy for applying what I was trying to say about wine.. I relate it's effectiveness on a timescale. Does it take longer to get a windows native application working properly with wine than it takes to install XP on an old box, install the application, and then enjoy it working properly.. It takes me about an hour.. any more is time I could be using for something else.

The only thing I have found I NEED windows for is Nokia and Samsung phone software, and it's easier to keep an old P3 clunker with warez xp on for the one use.

I don't like wine because I think it is a disincentive for open source application developers to continue to write standards compliant good cross platform applications. Apart from the aforementioned phone software tools (suppliers of which I have contacted many times about cross platform versions.. is it so hard to write a phone updating software suite in say Ruby?) I haven't found anything in my world that I can't achieve with linux, at a fraction of the cost on my old hardware.

Experiments running BSD with nothing but gnome/debian packages continues.

If I don't get back before the holidays because of work.. Have a great Christmas fellow open-sourcers
  • Daemonguy
  • Moderator
  • Web Master
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 2700
  • Loc: Somewhere outside the box in Sarasota, FL.

Post 3+ Months Ago

kc0tma wrote:
OS X is unix based, but I kind of think they are targeting their marketing dollars on stuff other than robots and what not. Doesn't microsoft have the embedded XP that they use in those little thin clients? I guess if it had an operating system on it, it wouldn't be a thin client, maybe I should quit nit picking.


Technically, OS X *IS* UNIX.
http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/regi ... nd3555.htm
  • snail
  • Graduate
  • Graduate
  • snail
  • Posts: 109

Post 3+ Months Ago

I was interested into exploring some nonWindows operating systems. Will you provide some of your preferences for nonWindows OS's you use, please? Any particular versions, red hat, fedora...Unix, Linux, ...Mac....?
  • kc0tma
  • o|||||||o
  • Web Master
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 3318
  • Loc: Trout Creek, MT

Post 3+ Months Ago

The nice thing about the linux systems is that you can download which ever ones you want for free, then play around with them and pick your favorite out of the bunch. Some of the most popular are ubuntu, fedora, gentoo or slackware (but those two might be a bit frustrating to use for your first linux). Knoppix is a good one because you can boot it from the cd/dvd and not even touch your hard drive, that way you can hang on to your windows for a little while longer. Actually, most distros have some sort of a live cd like that.

The thing with Mac OS X is it's not free, so if you buy it you are pretty much committed. But I have an apple laptop at home with Tiger and I really like it.
  • snail
  • Graduate
  • Graduate
  • snail
  • Posts: 109

Post 3+ Months Ago

Request technical explanation: [quote:Daemonguy[quote:kc0tma wrote:

OS X is unix based, but I kind of think they are targeting their marketing dollars on stuff other than robots and what not. Doesn't microsoft have the embedded XP that they use in those little thin clients? I guess if it had an operating system on it, it wouldn't be a thin client, maybe I should quit nit picking.]

Technically, OS X *IS* UNIX. ]
  • snail
  • Graduate
  • Graduate
  • snail
  • Posts: 109

Post 3+ Months Ago

What do you mean, Daemonguy, that OS X *IS* UNIX.
Please elaborate on what Unix is.
This, too, is confusing: [spork wrote: There's nothing requiring you to install a graphical environment. In fact, most common distributions give you the option to perform a "minimal" installation, which will only install the bare essentials necessary to run the system. From there, you can add packages as you need them, such as servers and utilities, all of which would be controlled via the terminal.]
How do you selectively install an OS?
  • Daemonguy
  • Moderator
  • Web Master
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 2700
  • Loc: Somewhere outside the box in Sarasota, FL.

Post 3+ Months Ago

You're joking, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix

Or hell, just Google Unix and you will come up with hundreds of "What is Unix?" sites.

Are you asking how to install other operating systems? Really? Take a wrong turn at the Windows forum? :) Heh.

Or is the question, how do I install part of an OS? Which is technically inaccurate; all of the OS is installed each time ... what one chooses to install or not install are considered add-ons or packages that enhance the core OS.

As for OS X, I thought the post made that plainly clear. OS X IS Unix, with cited reference.

I am not sure what your question is.
  • AnarchY SI
  • Web Master
  • Web Master
  • User avatar
  • Posts: 2521
  • Loc: /usr/src/MI

Post 3+ Months Ago

what he mans is that osx is based on the unix kernel.
"what is unix"
you could basically think of linux similar to DOS and Windows (early version.. 3, 3.1, 3.11, 95, 98, ME). theres DOS which is the command line interface, and then theres windows, the graphical interface. except in linux, theres the command line and then x11 provides the graphical interface (x11 = windows). you selectively install an OS by doing a "minimal install", and then using the package manager to only install the programs you're going to be using i.e. apache, mysql, php. then you can install openssh, do a little configuration and throw the hunk in the closet >.<


// daemonguy is faster than me :[ lol

Post Information

  • Total Posts in this topic: 27 posts
  • Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests
  • You cannot post new topics in this forum
  • You cannot reply to topics in this forum
  • You cannot edit your posts in this forum
  • You cannot delete your posts in this forum
  • You cannot post attachments in this forum
 
 

© 1998-2014. Ozzu® is a registered trademark of Unmelted, LLC.