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Background images won't show in internet explorer

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Post October 29th, 2008, 8:21 pm

Hi all,

I am trying to complete my first HTML site but am having some trouble getting it to run. When i display it in Mozilla Firefox it works fine but in Internet Explorer the background images disappear and the screen turns grey.

My website link is below:

http://www.yusufm.com


When i check the site in Dreamweaver is says The tag: "tr" doesn't have an attribute: "background" in currently active versions. [XHTML 1.0 transitional] and also The tag: "table" doesn't have an attribute: "height" in currently active versions [XHTML 1.0 transitional]

Secondly i would like to have a contact form on my site and found this one (below) but i can't seem to get it to work i changed the email address in the php mailer and put both files in a sub folder but no joy.

http://www.macromediahelp.com/flash/php_flash_contact_form/

Any help would be really appreciated.
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Post October 29th, 2008, 8:21 pm

  • righteous_trespasser
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Post October 29th, 2008, 11:26 pm

all right, welcome to the world of web-development ... and also to ozzu, I hope you stick around ...

The first issue ("tr" doesn't have an attribute: "background") is true ... for XHTML 1.0 Transitional, which is the DOCTYPE that you are using, you can replace that with some styling (CSS) ... so you would change that to:
Code: [ Select ]
<tr style='background-image:url('images/Header.jpg');'>


And then also for the second issue ("table" doesn't have an attribute: "height"), that again doesn't exist with an XHTML 1.0 Transitional DOCTYPE, but you can change that piece of code to the following:
Code: [ Select ]
<table style='height:235px;'>


And that should fix your problem ...
Let's leave all our *plum* where it is and go live in the jungle ...
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Post October 30th, 2008, 4:20 am

Thanks for the welcome and the quick reply.

It seems to be quite a steep learning curve when trying to get the hang of HTML.

I think I managed to make the changes for the index page but i am still having some issues. The proportions are wrong in IE when compared to Firefox and i still get:

Code: [ Select ]
The tag: "tr" doesn't have an attribute: "tr" in currently active versions.[XHTML 1.0 transitional]


which refers to

Code: [ Select ]
 <tr align="center" valign="top" tr style='background-image:url("images/content.jpg");'>
    <td height="188"><table width="919" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
      <tr align="center">
  1.  <tr align="center" valign="top" tr style='background-image:url("images/content.jpg");'>
  2.     <td height="188"><table width="919" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
  3.       <tr align="center">


and

Code: [ Select ]
The tag: "table" doesn't have an attribute: "table" in currently active versions.[XHTML 1.0 transitional]


which refers to

Code: [ Select ]
<td width="104" align="left" valign="top"><table width="71%" table style='height:235px;' border="0" align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
          <tr>
  1. <td width="104" align="left" valign="top"><table width="71%" table style='height:235px;' border="0" align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
  2.           <tr>


when i validate.

Getting there but still some basic errors I'm sure
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Post October 30th, 2008, 5:00 am

I have made some progress i only get one error message now when i validate.

Code: [ Select ]
The tag: "tr" doesn't have an attribute: "tr" in currently active versions.[XHTML 1.0 transitional]


referring to the line in html

Code: [ Select ]
</tr>
  <tr align="center" valign="top" tr style='background-image:url("images/content.jpg");'>
    <td height="188"><table width="919" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
      <tr align="center">
  1. </tr>
  2.   <tr align="center" valign="top" tr style='background-image:url("images/content.jpg");'>
  3.     <td height="188"><table width="919" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
  4.       <tr align="center">


And also there are some proportion discrepancies between Firefox and IE
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Post October 30th, 2008, 6:19 am

Sorry to be a pain in the but, but is there a chance you can show me your full code?
Let's leave all our *plum* where it is and go live in the jungle ...
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Post October 30th, 2008, 6:25 am

Yeah, that's fine. I have attached it below.

Be prepared for a number of rookie errors :oops:

Code: [ Select ]
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />
<title>Index</title>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
body {
    background-color: #CCCCCC;
}
#apDiv1 {
    position:absolute;
    left:69px;
    top:29px;
    width:234px;
    height:29px;
    z-index:1;
}
#apDiv2 {
    position:absolute;
    left:71px;
    top:64px;
    width:244px;
    height:25px;
    z-index:2;
}
-->
</style>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
.style4 {
    font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    font-size: 9pt;
}
-->
</style>
 
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#apDiv3 {
    position:absolute;
    left:80px;
    top:297px;
    width:864px;
    height:25px;
    z-index:1;
}
.style5 {
    font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    font-size: 9pt;
    font-style: normal;
    vertical-align: baseline;
    line-height: 6px;
    color: #FFFFFF;
    text-align: center;
}
.style6 {font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif}
-->
</style>
 
 
 
<style type="text/css">
<!--
.style12 {
    font-size: 10pt;
    font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
}
-->
</style>
<script src="SpryAssets/SpryMenuBar.js" type="text/javascript"></script>
<link href="SpryAssets/SpryMenuBarHorizontal.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" />
<link href="SpryAssets/SpryMenuBarVertical.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" />
</head>
 
<body>
<table width="920" border="0" align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
  <tr style='background-image:url("images/Header.jpg");'>
    <td height="85">&nbsp;</td>
  </tr>
  <tr align="center" valign="top" tr style='background-image:url("images/content.jpg");'>
    <td height="188"><table width="919" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
      <tr align="center">
        <td width="10" height="387" valign="top">&nbsp;</td>
        <td width="104" align="left" valign="top"><table width="84" border="0" align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
          <tr>
            <td height="123"><ul id="MenuBar1" class="MenuBarVertical">
              <li><a href="index.html" class="style4">About Me</a> </li>
              <li><a href="#" class="MenuBarVertical style4">Portfolio</a>
                  <ul>
                    <li><a href="Ctrlaltdelete.html" class="style4">Ctrl-alt-delete</a></li>
                    <li><a href="wordsplus.html" class="style4">Words Plus</a></li>
                    <li><a href="Panicescape.html" class="style4">Panic Escape</a></li>
                    <li><a href="greenriders.html" class="style4">Green Riders</a></li>
                    <li><a href="frogchair.html" class="style6">Frog Chair</a></li>
                    <li><a href="shoedesign.html" class="style4">Shoe Design</a></li>
                    </ul>
              </li>
              <li><a href="cv.html" class="style4">Skills &amp; CV</a> </li>
              <li><a href="contact.html" class="style4">Contact</a></li>
            </ul></td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <td>&nbsp;</td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <td>&nbsp;</td>
          </tr>
        </table></td>
        <td width="12" valign="top">&nbsp;</td>
        <td width="770" align="left" valign="top"><table width="761" border="0" align="left" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
          <tr align="left" valign="top">
            <td align="left" valign="top"><div class="style4">
                <div align="justify">
                  <p class="style12"><strong class="style6">                    ABOUT ME:</strong><br />
                    I recently graduated from the Royal of Art and  Imperial London with a joint Master’s in <a href="http://www.rca.ac.uk/Default.aspx?ContentID=160473&amp;CategoryID=36692">Industrial Design Engineering</a>. I am  currently working part-time for Blackberry (Research in Motion) as a Designer  &amp; Research Associate at the <a href="http://www.hhc.rca.ac.uk/1652/all/1/inclusive_design.aspx">Helen Hamlyn Centre</a>, and am also in the process  of starting up a company within <a href="http://www.designlondon.net/">Design London</a>, off the back of winning the <a href="http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/newsandeventspggrp/imperialcollege/newssummary/news_17-3-2008-10-49-53?newsid=31514">New Business Challenge 2008</a>.</p>
                  <p class="style12">I have a people-centred approach to design and  like to solve problems, as well as come up with new questions. My engineering background has given me a holistic approach to  design incorporating both aesthetics and technical engineering. It also enables  me to quickly create prototypes and sketch models for iterative development  with real users. I  believe design is about creating new possibilities, utilising multidisciplinary  teams and user insights to create great products, experiences and services.</p>
                  <table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
                    <tr>
                      <td><div align="center">
                        <p class="style12"><img src="images/Main_yusufmuhammad.jpg" alt="Words Plus" width="236" height="202" longdesc="images/Main_yusufmuhammad.jpg" /></p>
                        </div></td>
                      <td><div align="center"><img src="images/Main3_yusufmuhammad.jpg" alt="Ctrl-alt-delete" width="236" height="202" longdesc="images/Main3_yusufmuhammad.jpg" /></div></td>
                      <td><div align="center"><img src="images/Main2_yusufmuhammad.jpg" alt="Panic Escape" width="236" height="202" longdesc="images/Main2_yusufmuhammad.jpg" /></div></td>
                    </tr>
                  </table>
                  </div>
            </div>              </td>
          </tr>
         
        </table></td>
        <td width="23" align="left" valign="top">&nbsp;</td>
      </tr>
     
     
    </table></td>
  </tr>
  <tr style='background-image:url("images/Footer.jpg");'>
    <td height="60" align="center" valign="top"><div>
      <h1 class="style5"><br />
        <br />
        Yusuf  Muhammad’s Industrial Design Portfolio  © Yusuf Muhammad 2008</h1>
    </div></td>
  </tr>
</table>
 
 
<script type="text/javascript">
<!--
var MenuBar1 = new Spry.Widget.MenuBar("MenuBar1", {imgRight:"SpryAssets/SpryMenuBarRightHover.gif"});
//-->
</script>
</body>
</html>
 
  1. <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
  2. <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
  3. <head>
  4. <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />
  5. <title>Index</title>
  6. <style type="text/css">
  7. <!--
  8. body {
  9.     background-color: #CCCCCC;
  10. }
  11. #apDiv1 {
  12.     position:absolute;
  13.     left:69px;
  14.     top:29px;
  15.     width:234px;
  16.     height:29px;
  17.     z-index:1;
  18. }
  19. #apDiv2 {
  20.     position:absolute;
  21.     left:71px;
  22.     top:64px;
  23.     width:244px;
  24.     height:25px;
  25.     z-index:2;
  26. }
  27. -->
  28. </style>
  29. <style type="text/css">
  30. <!--
  31. .style4 {
  32.     font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
  33.     font-size: 9pt;
  34. }
  35. -->
  36. </style>
  37.  
  38. <style type="text/css">
  39. <!--
  40. #apDiv3 {
  41.     position:absolute;
  42.     left:80px;
  43.     top:297px;
  44.     width:864px;
  45.     height:25px;
  46.     z-index:1;
  47. }
  48. .style5 {
  49.     font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
  50.     font-size: 9pt;
  51.     font-style: normal;
  52.     vertical-align: baseline;
  53.     line-height: 6px;
  54.     color: #FFFFFF;
  55.     text-align: center;
  56. }
  57. .style6 {font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif}
  58. -->
  59. </style>
  60.  
  61.  
  62.  
  63. <style type="text/css">
  64. <!--
  65. .style12 {
  66.     font-size: 10pt;
  67.     font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
  68. }
  69. -->
  70. </style>
  71. <script src="SpryAssets/SpryMenuBar.js" type="text/javascript"></script>
  72. <link href="SpryAssets/SpryMenuBarHorizontal.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" />
  73. <link href="SpryAssets/SpryMenuBarVertical.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" />
  74. </head>
  75.  
  76. <body>
  77. <table width="920" border="0" align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
  78.   <tr style='background-image:url("images/Header.jpg");'>
  79.     <td height="85">&nbsp;</td>
  80.   </tr>
  81.   <tr align="center" valign="top" tr style='background-image:url("images/content.jpg");'>
  82.     <td height="188"><table width="919" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
  83.       <tr align="center">
  84.         <td width="10" height="387" valign="top">&nbsp;</td>
  85.         <td width="104" align="left" valign="top"><table width="84" border="0" align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
  86.           <tr>
  87.             <td height="123"><ul id="MenuBar1" class="MenuBarVertical">
  88.               <li><a href="index.html" class="style4">About Me</a> </li>
  89.               <li><a href="#" class="MenuBarVertical style4">Portfolio</a>
  90.                   <ul>
  91.                     <li><a href="Ctrlaltdelete.html" class="style4">Ctrl-alt-delete</a></li>
  92.                     <li><a href="wordsplus.html" class="style4">Words Plus</a></li>
  93.                     <li><a href="Panicescape.html" class="style4">Panic Escape</a></li>
  94.                     <li><a href="greenriders.html" class="style4">Green Riders</a></li>
  95.                     <li><a href="frogchair.html" class="style6">Frog Chair</a></li>
  96.                     <li><a href="shoedesign.html" class="style4">Shoe Design</a></li>
  97.                     </ul>
  98.               </li>
  99.               <li><a href="cv.html" class="style4">Skills &amp; CV</a> </li>
  100.               <li><a href="contact.html" class="style4">Contact</a></li>
  101.             </ul></td>
  102.           </tr>
  103.           <tr>
  104.             <td>&nbsp;</td>
  105.           </tr>
  106.           <tr>
  107.             <td>&nbsp;</td>
  108.           </tr>
  109.         </table></td>
  110.         <td width="12" valign="top">&nbsp;</td>
  111.         <td width="770" align="left" valign="top"><table width="761" border="0" align="left" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
  112.           <tr align="left" valign="top">
  113.             <td align="left" valign="top"><div class="style4">
  114.                 <div align="justify">
  115.                   <p class="style12"><strong class="style6">                    ABOUT ME:</strong><br />
  116.                     I recently graduated from the Royal of Art and  Imperial London with a joint Master’s in <a href="http://www.rca.ac.uk/Default.aspx?ContentID=160473&amp;CategoryID=36692">Industrial Design Engineering</a>. I am  currently working part-time for Blackberry (Research in Motion) as a Designer  &amp; Research Associate at the <a href="http://www.hhc.rca.ac.uk/1652/all/1/inclusive_design.aspx">Helen Hamlyn Centre</a>, and am also in the process  of starting up a company within <a href="http://www.designlondon.net/">Design London</a>, off the back of winning the <a href="http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/newsandeventspggrp/imperialcollege/newssummary/news_17-3-2008-10-49-53?newsid=31514">New Business Challenge 2008</a>.</p>
  117.                   <p class="style12">I have a people-centred approach to design and  like to solve problems, as well as come up with new questions. My engineering background has given me a holistic approach to  design incorporating both aesthetics and technical engineering. It also enables  me to quickly create prototypes and sketch models for iterative development  with real users. I  believe design is about creating new possibilities, utilising multidisciplinary  teams and user insights to create great products, experiences and services.</p>
  118.                   <table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
  119.                     <tr>
  120.                       <td><div align="center">
  121.                         <p class="style12"><img src="images/Main_yusufmuhammad.jpg" alt="Words Plus" width="236" height="202" longdesc="images/Main_yusufmuhammad.jpg" /></p>
  122.                         </div></td>
  123.                       <td><div align="center"><img src="images/Main3_yusufmuhammad.jpg" alt="Ctrl-alt-delete" width="236" height="202" longdesc="images/Main3_yusufmuhammad.jpg" /></div></td>
  124.                       <td><div align="center"><img src="images/Main2_yusufmuhammad.jpg" alt="Panic Escape" width="236" height="202" longdesc="images/Main2_yusufmuhammad.jpg" /></div></td>
  125.                     </tr>
  126.                   </table>
  127.                   </div>
  128.             </div>              </td>
  129.           </tr>
  130.          
  131.         </table></td>
  132.         <td width="23" align="left" valign="top">&nbsp;</td>
  133.       </tr>
  134.      
  135.      
  136.     </table></td>
  137.   </tr>
  138.   <tr style='background-image:url("images/Footer.jpg");'>
  139.     <td height="60" align="center" valign="top"><div>
  140.       <h1 class="style5"><br />
  141.         <br />
  142.         Yusuf  Muhammad’s Industrial Design Portfolio  © Yusuf Muhammad 2008</h1>
  143.     </div></td>
  144.   </tr>
  145. </table>
  146.  
  147.  
  148. <script type="text/javascript">
  149. <!--
  150. var MenuBar1 = new Spry.Widget.MenuBar("MenuBar1", {imgRight:"SpryAssets/SpryMenuBarRightHover.gif"});
  151. //-->
  152. </script>
  153. </body>
  154. </html>
  155.  
  • righteous_trespasser
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Post October 30th, 2008, 6:29 am

three_questions wrote:
I have made some progress i only get one error message now when i validate.

Code: [ Select ]
The tag: "tr" doesn't have an attribute: "tr" in currently active versions.[XHTML 1.0 transitional]


referring to the line in html

Code: [ Select ]
</tr>
  <tr align="center" valign="top" tr style='background-image:url("images/content.jpg");'>
    <td height="188"><table width="919" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
      <tr align="center">
  1. </tr>
  2.   <tr align="center" valign="top" tr style='background-image:url("images/content.jpg");'>
  3.     <td height="188"><table width="919" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
  4.       <tr align="center">


And also there are some proportion discrepancies between Firefox and IE

I see your problem now ... haha ... wasn't reading properly the first time I think ... you have a "tr" inside your "tr" which isn't supposed to be there ...
so you just have to change this piece and take out the red part
Code: [ Select ]
<tr align="center" valign="top" tr style='background-image:url("images/content.jpg");'>

just take that out ...
Let's leave all our *plum* where it is and go live in the jungle ...
  • three_questions
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Post October 30th, 2008, 6:45 am

Thanks alot.

AAAhhh. Its always the little things!

I have one other problem on another page http://yusufm.com/wordsplus.html:

Code: [ Select ]
The tag name: "embed" Not found in currently active versions.[XHTML 1.0 transitional]


which refers to

Code: [ Select ]
</span><span class="style18"><img src="images/Wordsplus2_yusufmuhammad.jpg" alt="" width="751" height="301" longdesc="images/Wordsplus2_yusufmuhammad.jpg" /><br />
                    <br />
                    <strong>The digital audio book<br />
                      </strong>The digital audio book plays on the intuitive  action of following your finger along the page as you read aloud. Animated  visualisations are triggered in conjunction with syllabic sounds, and can be  set to convey a range of phonic characteristics. &nbsp;<br />
                      </span></p>
                  <div>
                    <div align="center"><span class="style18">
                      <script type="text/javascript">
AC_AX_RunContent( 'width','400','height','321','src','http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=2086229&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=00adef&fullscreen=1','type','application/x-shockwave-flash','allowfullscreen','true','allowscriptaccess','always','movie','http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=2086229&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=00adef&fullscreen=1' ); //end AC code
</script><noscript><object width="400" height="321">
                        <param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" />
                        <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" />
                        <param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=2086229&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=00adef&amp;fullscreen=1" />
                        <embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=2086229&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=00adef&amp;fullscreen=1" width="400" height="321" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></embed>
                      </object></noscript>
                      </span></div>
                  </div>
  1. </span><span class="style18"><img src="images/Wordsplus2_yusufmuhammad.jpg" alt="" width="751" height="301" longdesc="images/Wordsplus2_yusufmuhammad.jpg" /><br />
  2.                     <br />
  3.                     <strong>The digital audio book<br />
  4.                       </strong>The digital audio book plays on the intuitive  action of following your finger along the page as you read aloud. Animated  visualisations are triggered in conjunction with syllabic sounds, and can be  set to convey a range of phonic characteristics. &nbsp;<br />
  5.                       </span></p>
  6.                   <div>
  7.                     <div align="center"><span class="style18">
  8.                       <script type="text/javascript">
  9. AC_AX_RunContent( 'width','400','height','321','src','http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=2086229&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=00adef&fullscreen=1','type','application/x-shockwave-flash','allowfullscreen','true','allowscriptaccess','always','movie','http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=2086229&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=00adef&fullscreen=1' ); //end AC code
  10. </script><noscript><object width="400" height="321">
  11.                         <param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" />
  12.                         <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" />
  13.                         <param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=2086229&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=00adef&amp;fullscreen=1" />
  14.                         <embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=2086229&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=00adef&amp;fullscreen=1" width="400" height="321" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></embed>
  15.                       </object></noscript>
  16.                       </span></div>
  17.                   </div>


And the embedding of a Vimeo movie file.

It doesn't seem to like IE either
  • righteous_trespasser
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Post October 30th, 2008, 7:38 am

maybe have a look at this
Let's leave all our *plum* where it is and go live in the jungle ...
  • three_questions
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Post October 30th, 2008, 7:46 am

Thanks alot man

I managed to fix the bug.

:)
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Post October 30th, 2008, 7:49 am

Schweet ... glad you got it sorted ...
Let's leave all our *plum* where it is and go live in the jungle ...
  • webdummy
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Post November 15th, 2008, 5:46 am

righteous_trespasser wrote:
all right, welcome to the world of web-development ... and also to ozzu, I hope you stick around ...

The first issue ("tr" doesn't have an attribute: "background") is true ... for XHTML 1.0 Transitional, which is the DOCTYPE that you are using, you can replace that with some styling (CSS) ... so you would change that to:
Code: [ Select ]
<tr style='background-image:url('images/Header.jpg');'>


And then also for the second issue ("table" doesn't have an attribute: "height"), that again doesn't exist with an XHTML 1.0 Transitional DOCTYPE, but you can change that piece of code to the following:
Code: [ Select ]
<table style='height:235px;'>


And that should fix your problem ...


The reason i did not stick around last time was because i was not getting any help to my queries in this forum I thought I give it another go but no, ...dejavu!...which looks like its happening again :hmm: what a waste of time!!! :hmm:
  • righteous_trespasser
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Post November 15th, 2008, 9:10 am

What are you going on about? this thread doesn't even have to do with you ...
Let's leave all our *plum* where it is and go live in the jungle ...

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