Browsers to account for?

  • allgoodpeople
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Post 3+ Months Ago

When testing your site to make sure it's displaying, what are the major browsers one should use? I have:

IE 6.x
Netscape 7.x
Opera 7.x
Mozilla 1.7

Are there any other major ones out there?

Mark
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Post 3+ Months Ago

  • UNFLUX
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Post 3+ Months Ago

THat's pretty much it, but don't forget the MAC population out there. ;)
  • allgoodpeople
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Post 3+ Months Ago

UNFLUX wrote:
THat's pretty much it, but don't forget the MAC population out there. ;)


hmmm, good point. how could i test a site for mac "compliancy" without having access to a mac myself? is there some sort of emulator available for windows?

mark
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Post 3+ Months Ago

*sighs
Google Search = "macintosh browsers"
2nd result: http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/ref ... x_mac.html

(There's plenty more to read on that Google search than just that link, but that will get you started.)


You can probably be certain that a fair amount of OS X users are probably using Apple's own Safari. Here's what Apple has to say about Safari's ability to render pages according to standards:

Quote:
Precision layout
Rest assured, Safari renders Web pages properly according to the latest Internet standards. So pages that use advanced HTML, XML, XHTML, DOM, CSS, JavaScript and Java specifications just look right. And of course you can view the content in QuickTime, Flash and Shockwave plug-ins. Going beyond standard accuracy, pages in Safari look beautiful, thanks to fully anti-aliased text. Safari takes advantage of Jaguar’s rich support for Unicode, which lets you view sites in different writing systems, such as English and other Roman languages, Japanese, Chinese, Hebrew or Arabic — even on the same page.


Read more here:
http://www.apple.com/safari/

Google search = n/a
I always say, if you know who manufactures a product, check with them first before spinning your wheels.
  • RichB
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Post 3+ Months Ago

There's a neat site called Browser Cam that will allow you to test your pages on many different OS/browser combinations and show you screenshots of the results. It's not a free service, but they do offer a free trial.
  • allgoodpeople
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Post 3+ Months Ago

RichB wrote:
There's a neat site called Browser Cam that will allow you to test your pages on many different OS/browser combinations and show you screenshots of the results. It's not a free service, but they do offer a free trial.


That is a neat site. I like that idea a lot (probably why they made the business, eh?) I don't think i can justify the $40 a month just on a hobby site though.

ATNO/TW, I guess I don't entirely understand your post. I know Mac has their own browsers. I just don't know how I could test pages in Mac browsers without access to a Mac. Charts with features are nice, but it's just not the same as seeing it in real time. For instance, both explorer and navigator support DHTML according to those charts, but the menus on my site behave differently in the two browsers.

Safari won't run on a Windows system, will it? I am completely Mac illiterate though, so there may be a way to do it that I just don't know about. I checked out the safari download site at http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/safari.html and it doesn't look like there's a windows version. I guess I'm not going to lose too much sleep over it though. I think if one gets a site to work in explorer and navigator, most of the bases have been covered.

mark
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I think what ATNO/TW means is that if you stick to the standards your page should render ok in safari.

You can validate your html at:
http://validator.w3.org/

And your CSS at:
http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
  • ATNO/TW
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Sorry I didn't make it clear. Mac uses IE and NS, and Safari is standards compliant. If I read things correctly, probably more-so. The point was if you code to standards it will display as intended as RichB just stated.
  • lostinbeta
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Post 3+ Months Ago

When I code my sites, I make sure they work in Netscape first... since Netscape is more strict in the code than IE (IE likes to let things slip by the cracks and has a bunch of CSS that is for IE only). Pretty much if your site works in Netscape, you shouldn't have much (if any) problems in any other browser since NS is standards compliant.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Agreed with lostinbeta. You can probably extend that to Mozilla/Firebird. My experience also is Opera is probably the most "picky" about standards.
  • lostinbeta
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Post 3+ Months Ago

ATNO/TW wrote:
Agreed with lostinbeta. You can probably extend that to Mozilla/Firebird. My experience also is Opera is probably the most "picky" about standards.


Well Mozilla and Firebird both run off of the Gecko engine, which is what powers Netscape. So if it works in NS it will work in those (and vice versa).
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Yep -- sorta what I was saying. Opera is a refined Mozilla-based browser, too correct? Just curious for conversation sake (because I've never been able to follow it entirely) -- I was always under the impression that the "Gecko engine" was AOL/Netscape's version of Mozilla. I'm curious to bring this up, because, Netscape's Gecko obviously runs off the J2re, whereas Firebird does not.

//Added note to make sure I have some things correct. Mozilla and Netscape both use J2re, correct? However, Firebird was based off the Phoenix project and doesn't. It appears to me that Opera resembles Firebird more than Mozilla/Netscape.
  • RichB
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Post 3+ Months Ago

As far as I know Mozilla, Firebird, and Netscape 6+ are all based on builds of the Gecko engine, and Opera uses its own rendering engine.
  • lostinbeta
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Yeah, I believe Opera does use it's own engine... which actually makes it harder for cross browser coding. I know with a redirect script that I wrote for browser redirection, I had to check if the browser was Opera first otherwise it would return that it was Internet Explorer... which obviously isn't correct.

I personally am not a fan of Opera at all :-\
  • RichB
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Post 3+ Months Ago

They seem to be deliberately trying to allow uses to get around browser detection in the latest version of Opera by giving them a choice of user agent strings. Actually, I'm not entirely sure this is something new, since I didn't really pay much attention to Opera before version 7.

As an addendum, I don't think any are dependent on the J2RE, but I think it may have been bundled with NE6, which used the Java 2 plug-in for java applets instead of Netscape's older built-in java runtime.
  • digitalMedia
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Post 3+ Months Ago

In my experience there is no browser that is strictly conformant to W3C standards. That beast just doesn't exist. The major browsers have all taken a turn toward conformance/compliance, yet they all still have proprietary HTML tags, CSS attributes and DOM quirks. To be really be thorough on the subject you'd have to break it down to each standard (HTML4, HTML4.01, XHTML1.1, CSS1, CSS2....etc.)

For that reason, I write for the majority of my audience first, IE, then go back and fix it for whatever part of the remaining 5 to 10 percent that is economically reasonable.

It may not be true since the full release of Mozilla, but prior to that, Opera was widely considered the most standards compliant browser. If my memory serves me the original Opera engine was written by the same guy who wrote the CSS1 spec.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I mainly use Firebird 0.7, but most people use IE, either 5 or 6. On Macs, they use Safari and in some cases IE5 because some pages on Safari don't display as well since there are the little proprietary codes that IE uses. And since Netscape 6.x and 7.1 are both based on Mozilla, and you can see right off, if you look a little bit, that they use the Gecko engine, those are taken care of. If you want the long list of browsers, go to <A HREF="http://www.bravenet.com">www.bravenet.com</A> (I hope this turns out right, as I used quick reply) and get one of their counters. Put it anywhere, click the site stats link, and click on the browsers link. I used it a little bit, and found all of my (21) hits :> came from IE on Windows XP, at verying screen resolutions, which can also hash up a site's displaying.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

What a conversation this has turned out to be. Have to agree with dM, though:

Quote:
In my experience there is no browser that is strictly conformant to W3C standards. That beast just doesn't exist. The major browsers have all taken a turn toward conformance/compliance, yet they all still have proprietary HTML tags, CSS attributes and DOM quirks. To be really be thorough on the subject you'd have to break it down to each standard (HTML4, HTML4.01, XHTML1.1, CSS1, CSS2....etc.)

For that reason, I write for the majority of my audience first, IE, then go back and fix it for whatever part of the remaining 5 to 10 percent that is economically reasonable.


I can guarantee you that I've speant more of my time trying to understand how to do crossbrowser compatability than any other single given task.

I'm close, but still no cigar, and I think dM hit it on the head.

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