Fonts... Why arent more supported?

  • Uzzo
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I must have missed something so please correct me. Why is is that you cant get more than 4-5 fonts for writing on the web?
  • Nunzio390
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Post 3+ Months Ago

That's just the way it is right now. Maybe in the future more will be supported across platforms. Maybe not. This is quoted from musik, when he originally posted it in this thread...

musik wrote:
As far as standard text fonts go here is a list you can go by:

Win95+ Standard Fonts

Arial
Courier New
Marlett
Modern
Symbol
Times New Roman
Wingdings

Mac Standard Fonts

Avant Garde
Bookman
Courier
Helvetica
Helvetica Narrow
New Century Schoolbook
Palatino
Symbol
Times
Zapf Chancery
Zapf Dingbats

Microsoft Fonts on the Web (for Mac, Win3.x/95/NT)

Arial
Arial Black
Comic Sans MS
Courier New
Georgia
Impact
Times New Roman
Trebuchet MS
Verdana

So, use the above for your "guide".
  • Axe
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Becuase there's only a small set of fonts that are installed as standard on a given windows operating system, as Nunzio pointed out...

You can use ANY font you want. If you've got 500 fonts installed on your system, you can use all 500 fonts in your page, and anybody who has those fonts installed on their system can use them.

You can embed specific fonts into pages though, just hit google and search for WEFT.
  • Johan007
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Yeah I viewed one website in my lifetime that had the cool designer font "small fonts" and looked cool on my PC – I was shocked they used it cos I bet I would be the only one who could see that font.

The main problem IMO is that if a cool font like Humanist or Cafe type fonts become standard they will no longer be cool :?

For now there is nothing wrong with Verdana (Tahoma for small bold) as this makes many webpages easy to read.
  • Truce
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Post 3+ Months Ago

You could also let the font authotr know you want to use it and have people download it immediatley apon entering your site. Put a splash page up with 2 links.....one says something like "Download XFont and enter the cool site" and the other says "Enter with plain text." Then when the user clicks on the first link they get the start download screen and do all of that and then they can see it.

Just a thought...
  • rtm223
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Truce - thats unneccessary with an embedded font - the user downloads it automatically, just like a picture embedded in the page.

Plus, many people ignore anything that says download and install from the internet. :)
  • Truce
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Post 3+ Months Ago

So embedding the font doesnt even prompt the user before downloading or installing the font?
  • Johan007
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Post 3+ Months Ago

...embed the font? So you have to store the font on your webspace and link to it? Fonts are large in file size are they not?
  • Axe
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Scroll up, to where I said "just hit google and search for WEFT" :)
  • Nucleo
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Post 3+ Months Ago

fonts aren't "HUGE"
well
not to download anyway (no idea about embedding)
but to download they are only a few kb
  • rtm223
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Post 3+ Months Ago

You don't have to install the font just to view it.....
You have to install it to use it in a program like word

think of it like a set of images to download

BTW I just downloaded this font:
http://www.microsoft.com/typography/web/embedding/demos/1/PIE0.eot
Which is all of 5kB in size

I found it by following axe's advice :)
  • Cold Canuck
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Nunzio390 wrote:
...This is quoted from musik, when he originally posted it in...


I believe musik is a lady, not a gent :-]


Cheers...


C.C.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

rtm223 wrote:
Which is all of 5kB in size

I found it by following axe's advice :)


Yeah, for a Micro$oft product WEFT is pretty neat. It only officially supports IE (I don't know if other browsers are capable of reading the embeded font file formats - I haven't checked), but when you save it out, it only saves out the characters used in your page (or at least, that's how it is by default)...

This means that each time you edit it, if you use a character you've not used before, you'll have to export the font file out again, but you can set it to add the extra characters if you need it to.

But at leat you can elimiate characters your page may never use... like #, *, %, all the funny accented characters, fractions symbols, etc. So that cuts the file size down a lot in the exported font file.
  • Vladdrac
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Isn't it also only supported in IE 5.5+ ?
  • Axe
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I don't know, but if anybody's running older than 5.5 they need to upgrade anyways.
  • musik
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Cold Canuck wrote:
Nunzio390 wrote:
...This is quoted from musik, when he originally posted it in...


I believe musik is a lady, not a gent :-]


Cheers...


C.C.



(Only when I'm not swigging beer and burping ;) (kidding)

---

As far as standard fonts go, verdana 10pt ROCKS. Its just so nice and easy to read. I believe the fonts on this forum are verdana 10pt.

I've never used a non standard font on any websites, to do so is pretty much insane, not many people will download it unless they are a regular visitor to the site.

I agree there could be more standard fonts available - and ones that are the same right across from PC's to macs.... i think the developers just like to be pains in the butts to us developers and designers.
  • rtm223
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Post 3+ Months Ago

musik wrote:
I've never used a non standard font on any websites, to do so is pretty much insane, not many people will download it unless they are a regular visitor to the site.


Nonononononononoooo

Ok, let us please get this straight. You embed a font on your page. The font file is linked using css. The user DOES NOT have to download and install the font. The data for the font is sent to the users machine and is stored in the cache. When the cache gets emptied the font goes.

Nothing gets installed. If you go to a page with a fancy font, you won't be able to use that font in any other application. It is just another file that is downloaded with the page, like a .css or .js file. You don't get asked whether you want to download it.

Also, think about it. If you had to install the font, wouldn't this knock cross platform compatibillity right out?

and about verdana, JrzyCrim directed me to the link below to do with verdana and why it isn't quite so great lol:

JrzyCrim wrote:
Everyone doesn't necessarily like the same fonts. It's best to include generic font families. As far as verdana goes, I won't get into that here. I'll offer a link though:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/verdana.html


I won't be using verdana anymore....
  • Axe
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Post 3+ Months Ago

pffft... I design my pages to look the way *I* want 'em to look. If other people can't see my site exactly as I do, and exactly as I want them to (and with 90% of the world still using IE - or at least some windows browser - most of them do), then that's not my problem :D
  • Johan007
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Sure Axe for the people YOU design sites for its ok to think like that.

However the same cant be preached to everyone :P Most of my sites are education websites where IT labs still use 800x600 and run IE4 or Netscape.


This website http://www.themilkfactory.co.uk/main/index.php uses a font I think only I and a hand full of designers have called "small fonts" but to you lot it will show as Verdana in the drop down menu. "small fonts" look well smart :wink:

rtm223 Verdana is fantastic!
  • Axe
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Well, the whole point of CSS is so that people see the pages exactly as the designer intended - Just like magazines, newspapers & printed media that's been in use for years. So, it's not just MY sites where users seeing the site as I do is required. (So, we're not talking about CSS, but we are talking about end-users seeing the same page as the designer).

You don't see a magazine differently to the way somebody else does just because your eye-colour is different - although someody viewing it wearing glasses (another browser) may see things slightly differently :)

So, I design my sites to be viewed the same on somebody else's screen as they are on mine.

On one of my sites, I use a font called Matchworks. It's a pixel font, nice n' neat. It's not installed with Windows by default, and I used Micro$oft WEFT to embed it in the site.

Internet Explorer users can view the font as I do. They don't have to view another font just because the one I used isn't on their system by default.

If other browsers can't see it... well, like I said, that's not my prblem.

90-95% of the visitors on the 30 or so sites I admin are using Internet Explorer, so that's what I have to design for. I still use Verdana as the main font on all of the sites, and the embedded fonts I rarely use - and when I do it's just in small areas of the pages, like maybe a navbar across the top.

I design for IE, but I still attempt to make it look the same in other browsers wherever possible.
  • musik
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Post 3+ Months Ago

rtm223 wrote:
musik wrote:
I've never used a non standard font on any websites, to do so is pretty much insane, not many people will download it unless they are a regular visitor to the site.


Nonononononononoooo

Ok, let us please get this straight. You embed a font on your page. The font file is linked using css. The user DOES NOT have to download and install the font. The data for the font is sent to the users machine and is stored in the cache. When the cache gets emptied the font goes.

Nothing gets installed. If you go to a page with a fancy font, you won't be able to use that font in any other application. It is just another file that is downloaded with the page, like a .css or .js file. You don't get asked whether you want to download it.

Also, think about it. If you had to install the font, wouldn't this knock cross platform compatibillity right out?

and about verdana, JrzyCrim directed me to the link below to do with verdana and why it isn't quite so great lol:

JrzyCrim wrote:
Everyone doesn't necessarily like the same fonts. It's best to include generic font families. As far as verdana goes, I won't get into that here. I'll offer a link though:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/verdana.html


I won't be using verdana anymore....



:lol: ouch.
  • JrzyCrim
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Post 3+ Months Ago

rtm223 wrote:

and about verdana, JrzyCrim directed me to the link below to do with verdana and why it isn't quite so great lol:

JrzyCrim wrote:
Everyone doesn't necessarily like the same fonts. It's best to include generic font families. As far as verdana goes, I won't get into that here. I'll offer a link though:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/verdana.html


I won't be using verdana anymore....


:lol: Oh No! I didn't mean to start a war! I knew I shouldn't of mentioned verdana. Personally, I don't mind verdana. I posted that link just to offer up some info to consider when using verdana.
  • rtm223
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Post 3+ Months Ago

:lol: I just found it as useful information and thought I would spread the word :) The fact that it is such a different size to other fonts, combined with :
axe wrote:
Well, the whole point of CSS is so that people see the pages exactly as the designer intended

suggest that it is a bad choice of font.

To be honest I'm not quite so sure why verdana is so aesthetically pleasing to start with (now I've probably started a war :lol:). It's just another sans-serif font, isn't it?? :?


just as some handy info back on topic:
axe wrote:
It only officially supports IE (I don't know if other browsers are capable of reading the embeded font file formats - I haven't checked)


It doesn't work on netscape, although there is an alternative method of embedding fonts that can be used with netscape/mozzilla. It uses a different file type and different css method (which is handy as your browser only downloads the file it needs). I don't know how dificult it would be to get the same font in both file formats though....

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