Framesets. Good or bad idea?

  • HKt0p5
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I really like using framesets for menus and more interactivity but is that working in all browsers and ..is it too heavy or not really very professional?
My host went down for an unknown period of time and I have to refer to my other one at http://2ip.com which.. is quite garbage compared to http://www.coolspace.jp and I have to make everything I wanted to make with php and cgi and such nifties.. by good old plain HTML/CSS and eventually javascript. 2ip doesn't allow running any php-s or.. cgi-s or anything on it, not to mention it don't have the MySQL databases, the 1Gb free space and the PHPMyAdmin..stuck to 1000files max quota and 100Mb space.. :cry: :cry: .. OK, my rant is over. And so is my site :cry:
So moving to http://hirasawa.consensus.jp ..all the best I can do is with frames.

But.. "do frames suck..THAT much?"
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Post 3+ Months Ago

  • spork
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Post 3+ Months Ago

HKt0p5 wrote:
But.. "do frames suck..THAT much?"

The short answer: Yes, they do.

The longer answer: Yes, they do. Frames are usually avoided for two reasons. The first (and more subtle) reason is that they simply are not aesthetically pleasing. They give the site an overall feeling a clunkiness and discontinuity.

However, the main reason to not use frames has to do with SEO factors. The problem is that when search engines crawl the web and reach your site, the content they see is the HTML for the frameset instead of the content of your individual pages. Because of this, your site will not be properly indexed and your rank on search engines will be practically nonexistent.

If you really need the kind of usability (if you can call it that) that frames provide, such as a consistent navigation scheme across pages, then you really should look for a host that allows you to use better alternatives such as SSI, PHP, or other server-side scripting languages such as ASP, ColdFusion, etc.

I should note that I'm by no means an expert in SEO, so if I missed any key points here, I hope someone else can help point them out.
  • HKt0p5
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Believe me, I've turned the internet all over for such host. No avail. I was very happy when I found Coolspace.. but damn them, nothing seems to be working over there anymore! What's worse, you can't contact them ANYWHERE and tell them to fix the damn database and fatal errors and log-in script errors and even, heck, start sending new account activation e-mails!

The problem is I can't get to my file manager even through SmartFTP!

God if ONLY I could afford a damn .co.jp domain. T_T
[/rant]
  • spork
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Are you paying for hosting or using free hosting? I don't think I've come across any [paid] hosting that doesn't offer at least PHP or ASP, depending on the package type.
  • HKt0p5
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Free.
I have problems with my PayPal account and basically can't do shop online or use my CC for paying.
That aside, I'm trying to save up for Yamaha technics and I can't afford.. anything.

By the way, FTP question.
"Unable to resolve host name.". I go and check the details my SmartFTP provides. Says so:
"This error means that the hostname you are trying to connect to cannot be resolved to an IP address. (Hostnames are resolved to IP addresses by a DNS (Domain Name Server)."

and then IE says so:

The Domain Name Server (DNS) is not reachable.
The Domain Name Server (DNS) does not have a listing for the website's domain.

Okay, do this mean it will..eventually get fixed? Or.. that it is temporarily messed up? my connection is OK.. so.. what is with the DNS-s..
  • HKt0p5
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Post 3+ Months Ago

spork wrote:
However, the main reason to not use frames has to do with SEO factors. The problem is that when search engines crawl the web and reach your site, the content they see is the HTML for the frameset instead of the content of your individual pages. Because of this, your site will not be properly indexed and your rank on search engines will be practically nonexistent.

What if I use meta-tags on the main index page? The front one, with just an "Enter" on it. Before it turns into a maze of iframes.
  • spork
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Post 3+ Months Ago

It won't matter. If the crawler has no way to get to your pages, they won't get indexed.
  • HKt0p5
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Ugh. Does this forum has a section where I can ask for free hosting? I mean, like, a list or something..
  • spork
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Post 3+ Months Ago

There is a Website Hosting Forum here, but just as a forewarning, if you go asking for hosting recommendations, you're likely to get a lot of spam replies, since most people will just reply with their own hosting site.

Try reading this first and go from there:
hosting-forum/read-this-first-before-asking-for-hosting-recommendations-t34784.html
  • Hob Bramble
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Post 3+ Months Ago

In addition to the reasons Spork mentioned, according to the W3C's working draft, Frames (other than iFrames) will no longer be supported in HTML 5: http://www.w3.org/TR/html5-diff/#absent-elements

Looking for a quality free host is something like looking for a piece of hay in a needle-stack: painful and extremely difficult. However, there are a few "free if" hosts out there - i.e. hosts that are free but only accept some websites, for example: http://www.propercomfy.co.uk/ - some of which (including ProperComfy) include PHP etcetera.

Back on the main topic, though, I'd vote no-frames. Personally, if I could visit a highly interactive site with frames, or a static and plain site without them, I'd pick static any day. The trade off just isn't worth it - frames are annoying.
  • Grasshoppa
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Personal opinion here: As a user I despise frames. They annoy me because either the webmaster didn't implement them well, or because I get the impression that the webmaster thinks I'm too dumb to navigate a well designed (read: frameless) web page. Usually both.
  • HKt0p5
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Ok.. seems like the frames idea is cancelled.
But how about Flash?
  • Hob Bramble
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Well, Flash sites are generally pretty bad both SEO-wise and accessibility-wise. But if you did a static HTML site along with the Flash one (for accessibility [i.e. people who don't have/can't get Flash, people who use screen readers, etcetera] and for search engines to index), you would be fine.
  • savantcreative
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Post 3+ Months Ago

HKt0p5 wrote:
I really like using framesets for menus and more interactivity but is that working in all browsers and ..is it too heavy or not really very professional?
My host went down for an unknown period of time and I have to refer to my other one at http://2ip.com which.. is quite garbage compared to http://www.coolspace.jp and I have to make everything I wanted to make with php and cgi and such nifties.. by good old plain HTML/CSS and eventually javascript. 2ip doesn't allow running any php-s or.. cgi-s or anything on it, not to mention it don't have the MySQL databases, the 1Gb free space and the PHPMyAdmin..stuck to 1000files max quota and 100Mb space.. :cry: :cry: .. OK, my rant is over. And so is my site :cry:
So moving to http://hirasawa.consensus.jp ..all the best I can do is with frames.

But.. "do frames suck..THAT much?"


Frames are not at all good from an SEO point of view. I am sorry to say they are over.
  • EvSouL
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I like godaddy.com for hosting.. pretty darn cheap and can be pretty powerful.
  • HKt0p5
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Okay. Death to frames. Death to Flash.
So.. then.. TABLES? Super Tables, fixed tables, tables in tables and tables tables tables tables?
  • righteous_trespasser
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Post 3+ Months Ago

once again ... no ... CSS and divs ...
  • HKt0p5
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Post 3+ Months Ago

EDIT: X
Sorry, I a bit burst out in despair and the post was very rant. Since I can'r delete it.. just. Edited it out.

Seems like I'll ever manage to make a decent site for what I wanted. I'm near giving-up.. but.. anyway.

Thanks guys for all the advice and help.
  • Hob Bramble
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Well, I didn't necessarily say death to Flash - Flash is fine. I only said that, if you use Flash, you'll want to have some form of HTML site alongside it to cover stuff for your visitors who can't use Flash, and for search engines (this goes esp. if your site's actual content isn't very Flash-oriented). The thing about fully-Flash sites is that they work best when you have lots of Flash content. When you're content is mostly text-based (i.e. stories or articles), they tend to be somewhat of an excess.

You could always use JavaScript/AJAX to achieve some interactivity. Since it's client-side, you wouldn't have to worry about your host supporting it (unless the actually prevent you from using it), all you'd need to do was make sure that it degrades nicely for anyone who doesn't have JavaScript/has it turned off (unlike with Flash, it wouldn't require a second site to do).
  • HKt0p5
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I see.

One more question though. Are rollover images for a menu sort bad idea like the frames?
  • jameson5555
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Post 3+ Months Ago

No way, rollover images are cool. Frames bad, rollover images good :)
  • righteous_trespasser
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Post 3+ Months Ago

but please note, there are two ways of achieving rollovers ... the CSS way, and the dreamweaver\javascript way ... CSS would be the right way ...
  • HKt0p5
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Post 3+ Months Ago

meant CSS. NO clue how that work in Java anyway. Haha

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