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Total votes : 114

Select below what you use most to write your html

  •  
    Notepad
  •  
    Wordpad
  •  
    Dreamweaver
  •  
    CuteHTML
  •  
    Frontpage
  •  
    BBEdit (Mac)

How do you produce your html?

  • Bigwebmaster
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Please choose one of the above. Just curious how you guys design your webpages, if its not on the poll above let me know and I will add it.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

  • Borrow -A- Geek
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Post 3+ Months Ago

its a combination between dreamweaver and notepad, but dreamweaver has a mind of its own sometimes, and pisses me off to no end with tables! so i hasve to usually go into notepad and edit it manually to fix it...
  • UNFLUX
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I have to admit, that the majority of my work goes through Frontpage XP. There
isn't a damn thing wrong with it either.

People, coders mostly, complain that it clutters up the code, and makes for messy
web pages....I 100% disagree. Take a look at any of my web pages, and then
try to tell me that it's messy, or looks bad, or anything negative in terms of the
way it looks. You can't.

Dreamweaver is VERY NICE, especially MX. But as Guru said, I hate the way it
handles tables. Since I am a table-layer, using tables on tables on tables to
create my pages, I use Frontpage to start out, and get my boundries.

At some point in adding the content, I always go to DWMX and clean it up, and
finish it off there. I can code by hand...and make a lot of adjustments by hand in
notepad, but I personally see no point in sitting down and coding it all by hand,
especially when I feel my pages are far superior to a coders, in terms of
design.

Sorry, I didn't mean to post so much on this, but I had just had an argument with
a bunch of other webmasters about this, and they were proven wrong on every
point, even by vote from visitors in a poll.

Anyways...I use graphical editors, because I like to see what I'm making as I
make it, and then adjust from there. It's all a personal preference though...

/unflux
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  • Borrow -A- Geek
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Post 3+ Months Ago

can i change my vote to "no f***ing way!" haha j/k actually it was hard to ween myself off front page because as unflux said, it is a very user friendly interface. But the problem i have with front page is it is trying to be to damn smart for its own good. i put in some code with out using the insert html feature and bam it tries to make it proprietary microshaft crap. have you ever try removing the meta tags from front page only to discover it got put back in there?? ughh thats irritating.. haha or have you ever tried pasting code directly into the code area ony to find the FP converted it into html style like "%20%2e%2ecrap%2ecom" yet another very irritating feature...

oh and BTW when i told you i use notepad for alot of stuff its true, however i LOVE cute html as it has some really cool features like code coded code and line numbers as well as mass replace like if i have 20 identical documents or 20 docs with a snippet of code that is identical i just do a mass replace of all docs at once and BAM 1 hours work done in 2 seconds.. two thumbs up for cute html!

My 2 cents...
  • Bigwebmaster
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Yeah I used CuteHTML the other day for a mass replace on unmelted. I had some code that animaged my jpeg image at the top (yes jpeg), but anyway it seemed to be eating a ton of cpu, maxing it out, on the version 6's if IE. It had never done that on the earlier versions, so I am unsure why. So anyway I had about 250 pages to go through and doing it one at a time would have been a pain. So I used CuteHTML and was able to edit all of them in a matter of seconds. The mass replace feature is very handy.
  • ED
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Post 3+ Months Ago

UNFLUX wrote:
People, coders mostly, complain that it clutters up the code, and makes for messy
web pages....I 100% disagree. Take a look at any of my web pages, and then
try to tell me that it's messy, or looks bad, or anything negative in terms of the
way it looks. You can't.


the way things LOOK... no problem.. code is real easy to read but what it does is create EXTRA code.
like leading spaces used for indenting. Those leading spaces take up bandwidth.
Also.. it always adds font tags everywhere when it doesn't have to.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I agree...and that's usually what I hear about it. However, with the systems
people have today, 56k or not, it's irrelevant to speed. The bandwidth point, I
never really thought about. But I have a hard time believing it's significant. The
font tag thing is annoying, but it's not worth losing my techniques and styles over.

If I ever paste code into frontpage, I paste into notepad first then recopy...just a
quick lil' work-around.

My 2 cents on cute html = crap. :P

I understand all these points, as I said before, but I can't justify my designs for
pure principle of 'clean code.' And neither can my clients. [cha-ching]

/unflux
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  • UNFLUX
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Post 3+ Months Ago

it's what makes this biz so great!

1000000 ways to do the same thing. And none of them are necessarily the 'right'
way.

/unflux
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  • dreamer7
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Hey i use notepad or if i want to make a quick page with only text and pictures on it ill use HotMetal pro if any of u have heard of that but the gaming site i made was done pretty much with notepad with a few added source code pieces from javascript sites cos im new to javascript it isnt spectacular but i like it as its my first proper site that ive put up
D7
ps http://www.tatsquad.com thats it
  • Steen
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Metapad

aka: notepad on steriods!
  • turdmonsterGIA
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I use DW, and anyone that says thats the easy way out is stupid. Fast and easy, or long and tedious. :roll:
  • dreamer7
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Post 3+ Months Ago

long and tedious every time at least u learn something and know where ur going wrong in the code is it me or is there less and less raw coders out there these days?
d7
  • turdmonsterGIA
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Post 3+ Months Ago

dreamer7 wrote:
long and tedious every time at least u learn something and know where ur going wrong in the code is it me or is there less and less raw coders out there these days?
d7


I learned HTML through DW. I can code a site in notepad now because of DW but I dont see the use.
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Post 3+ Months Ago

i don't know i just have a thing with doing it with programs cos wen it comes to edit things u have to do it through the web editting program cos the source code looks dirty with all sorts of rubbish the program puts into it for no real reason wen u can just do it cleanly i don't know just personal choice i spose i know full well its a lot easier in dw but i never find the time to learn it lol at the moment im learning perl so html/xhtml is a distant memory lol
d7
  • guitrspaz
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Post 3+ Months Ago

You guys are going to laugh at me, but I use BBEdit (Mac :) ) or notepad for most stuff...at my old job they used GoLive which I hate, and I (very) occasionally use Dreamweaver.
  • Bigwebmaster
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I added BBEdit (Mac) to the poll. Is BBEdit only for Mac's? or is it also available for the PC? I hav never heard of the program :wink:
  • guitrspaz
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Post 3+ Months Ago

As far as i know its for mac only...its similar to homesite...color-coded tags etc, built-in perl syntax/error editor, ftp, basically a hightech notepad.
  • Bigwebmaster
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Okay thanks, I think I will leave the (Mac) by it then so people realize its for the MAC :D
  • UNFLUX
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Post 3+ Months Ago

are there any other popular Mac editors? if so, we should try to include
them I suppose. Although, we don't really have a lot of Mac users here I
believe. hmm...
  • DR01D
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Post 3+ Months Ago

personally i would avoid frontpage.

dreamweaver is much better, it will also clean up the frontpage code for you ;-) and its also better for site management and development.
  • Cae
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Post 3+ Months Ago

what dro1d said... frontpage is the devil... use dreamweaver... it doesnt matter which editor you use... it all ends up being HTML in the end... :)
  • VentsyV
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Just edit it in your favourite text editor.
  • Ifrit
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I don't even know why some webhosting services provide 'front page extensions', ain't it all html? ain't it all the same?
  • rtm223
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I've been wondering that....

I think it must be some kind of external files that MS Frontpage uses? An extra money-spinner.

IE, people (dumb people, mostly) use frontpage to make their web pages. They then use extensions. This ties them into using Frontpage in the future. Then they have to get their site hosted with a host who has "frontpage extension support" (which I'm guessing requires a fee to go to microsoft).

Whether thats right or not, it's gotta be something to do with tying people to their products and/or making more money.

On topic: I would agree with ditching frontpage - it puts so much crap into your pages it's unbelieveable. Either use dreamweaver (or even a freeware editor - I believe there are some good free ones knocking about). However any generator will put loads of crap into the pages, so the best bet is to use a text editor if you know enough coding to get by.
  • Ifrit
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I think dreamweaver has a function to clear all of that crap.

And yeah i bet its another way to get people to believe that's a better hosting service because they support frontpage ;)
  • Carnix
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Frontpage extensions, from a web server perspective, are basically advanced FTP protocols. They let the client-side application talk directly to the server so that the user doesn't have to know anything about FTP, or that sort of thing, but can upload and download their web files easily. Interdev uses them in more or less the same way as FrontPage does. FP extensions, on Windows, are terribly insecure, and whoever it was that ported them to Apache should be shot on sight.

If Frontpage is the Devil, then Dreamweaver is the Anti-Christ...

Just download EditPad or Textpad (by personal choice) or some other similiar text editor and learn the languages. You'll be better for it, and the Web will be too. WYSISYG applications are dumming down the Internet, since anyone that can use Word can put up crummy webpages these days...

It will take some time to clean up the FP mess, but it will be worth it in the long run.


.c
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Post 3+ Months Ago

jlknauff wrote:
I don't think it's worth the time to hand code it. You should learn as much as you can so that you know what your doing, but just use DW.


You must be joking? I mean.. you ARE kidding right? OF COURSE you should learn to hand code it. Otherwise, it's like trying to be a painter without every learning how to use a paintbrush.

Beyond the fact that WYSYWIG tools can't always make things work how you want them, and the fact that they create messy, inefficient code that can cost GBs of bandwidth a year, especially for a traffiked site... not knowing how to actually code means there are a bunch of people out there calling themselves web developers, or even programmers, who don't know a lick about web developement or programming! They might be good graphic artists, but when it comes to "web developement" all they know how to do is slice and dice their PSD and upload it, in all its inefficient, bandwidth and HD space horror.

... you must have been kidding.... right? :?

.c
  • jlknauff
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Um, no...did it look like I was kidding? If you took the time to actually read my post it clearly said that they SHOULD learn to code, but there is no reason to hand code for the grunt work. Did I say WYSIWYG does everything? No. Hand coding is not efficient so you make your pages in a program like DW, then clean up and optimize any crap left behind.

Just in case there is any confusion this time I'M NOT KIDDING :wink:
  • Carnix
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I disagree completely. You'll end up spending more time cleaning up and rewritting bad code than you would writting clean code. Trust me, I see it all the time with some of the developers I have working for me. The ones that know how to do it all by hand consistantly submit production quality work faster.
.c
  • rtm223
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Post 3+ Months Ago

//edit - scrapped the previous rant, as I found the code I posted below, which says so much more than my words ever could

<b>well written</b> html code consists of a few div tags, and some nested lists for links. Then add maybe 10 id's and your good to go. This does not take long to produce, we are talking a hour here, including planning.

You show me a dreamweaver site that runs more efficiently than what I can produce, and has good accessibility and devolves nicely onto portable devices, and I will eat my own socks :D


//edit, sorry but I couldn't resist.
Quote:
No. Hand coding is not efficient so you make your pages in a program like DW, then clean up and optimize any crap left behind.

I had a look at your source code and found this:

Code: [ Select ]
 <tr>
  <td height="105"></td>
  <td></td>
  <td></td>

  <td></td>
  <td></td>
  <td></td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
  <td height="12"></td>
  <td></td>
  <td></td>
  <td></td>

  <td></td>
  <td></td>
  <td></td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
  <td height="10"></td>
  <td></td>
  <td></td>
  <td></td>

  <td width="50"></td>
  <td width="7"></td>
  <td width="50"></td>
  <td width="8"></td>
  <td width="50"></td>
  <td></td>
  <td></td>
  <td></td>
 </tr>

 <tr>
  1.  <tr>
  2.   <td height="105"></td>
  3.   <td></td>
  4.   <td></td>
  5.   <td></td>
  6.   <td></td>
  7.   <td></td>
  8.  </tr>
  9.  <tr>
  10.   <td height="12"></td>
  11.   <td></td>
  12.   <td></td>
  13.   <td></td>
  14.   <td></td>
  15.   <td></td>
  16.   <td></td>
  17.  </tr>
  18.  <tr>
  19.   <td height="10"></td>
  20.   <td></td>
  21.   <td></td>
  22.   <td></td>
  23.   <td width="50"></td>
  24.   <td width="7"></td>
  25.   <td width="50"></td>
  26.   <td width="8"></td>
  27.   <td width="50"></td>
  28.   <td></td>
  29.   <td></td>
  30.   <td></td>
  31.  </tr>
  32.  <tr>
Nice way to clean up the crap.

I think that just about wraps up the efficiency discussion :wink:
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