What's The Point Of Markup Validation?

  • Bartell
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I don't understand the point in validating your website. I honestly don't think that it is necessary just based on the fact that all of the major sites that I have ran the validator on have had 30+ errors. I am just curious in your opinions on what the benefits are in validating your websites code.

Google - 30 errors
Yahoo - 34 errors
CNN - 123 errors
Apple - 4 errors
Dmoz.org - 4 errors
Myspace.com 118 errors
MSN - PASSED!
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Post 3+ Months Ago

  • Bogey
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Validation of the code is like an image of the programmer... let me rephrase that, the CODE of the page/site is the image of the programmer. If the code is valid than the page/site had more chances of being rendered the same on all browsers and it shows that the programmer knows his/her job.
  • Bartell
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Post 3+ Months Ago

So you don't think that invalid code affects rankings or anything SEO related? Are their any other benefits for having valid code? Thanks.
  • righteous_trespasser
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Of course it does ... let's say you forgot to close a <p> tag somewhere ... the page would most likely still be displayed pretty accurately, but now googlebot comes along and scans your <p> tags and sees all sorts of junk in there because it was never closed ... thus your site is either seen as spam, or you don't get the right search keywords that you wanted ...

Also different browsers won't display pages exactly the same ... but if your site is STRICT valid, it's very difficult to make it look different ...
  • Fabinator
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Post 3+ Months Ago

- Good for SEO
- Good for browser compatibility
- Good for your reputation

Making your pages valid is really worth your time. ;)
  • Bartell
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Well my argument is that if that is true, why do all those major sites not follow it?
  • righteous_trespasser
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I don't think any of us have much contact with the major companies on a daily basis, so it's rather tough to ask them ... Now that I think of it,, Bill (Gates) is coming over for a BBQ on saturday though ... I'll try and find out from him ...
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Post 3+ Months Ago

righteous_trespasser wrote:
... Bill (Gates) is coming over for a BBQ on saturday though ... I'll try and find out from him ...


:lol:

On topic; Standards aren't laws. Strict adherence is a choice. While the sites you mentioned do have flaws, in the strictest sense, they are all sites that function more than adequately for their users.

In mechanical engineering, there are standards. For instance, if I needed a bolt, I would grab my Machinist's Handbook and find a standard bolt to use. However, there may be situations where I need to create a solution that is non-standard. Guess what? That's okay. That's where innovation happens.

A dictionary is a set of standards. Few people actually adhere to them. The dictionary doesn't define usage. Usage defines the dictionary.

Standards are a baseline...a centralization of an idea.

In any case, these technologies are still in their infancies. In 10 years, the things we now consider standards will likely be passé.

Having said all that, I tend to write valid XHMTL/CSS, but I don't sweat one or two errors and I never, ever, put the validation pog on my pages.
  • Bartell
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Post 3+ Months Ago

That clears things up. Thanks.
  • joebert
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Another thing to keep in mind is that alot of those companies have employees of theirs on the standards boards.

For instance, take a look at the editor names on this draft.
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/
What may be an error today, could very well be a standard tomarrow. Except in the case of ignorant errors like closing a parent tag before closing the child tag.

You would be wise to stick with the standards being put in place by the companies that spread your message if your business is what the web moves instead of how the web moves it. At least untill you move enough to influence those companies & convince them that making changes which make your life easier is in their best interest.
  • Bryce
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Most of the time, a heavy PHP/MySQL site will cause the site to not be valid, but there are ways around that. Also, it's good to stick with standards just like all the others have said. There's less chance for your site to be screwed up on all browsers. Although that doesn't count for IE, as thats just a POS browser anyway XD.
  • spork
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Bryce wrote:
Most of the time, a heavy PHP/MySQL site will cause the site to not be valid, but there are ways around that.

I don't follow your logic at all. The back-end part of a site shouldn't cause you to write bad/invalid code.
  • Steven D
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Bogey posted up a link to a plug in on his blog, for a w3 validator.

Every single site I have been to incl google.com has come up with oodles of errors and im wondering if it isnt just a little but anal.

On one site some of the errors were using a Meta Link Tag to a stylesheet in the middle of the page
Some errors are putting the / at the end of a closing tag
Some sites it was not putting the / at the end of a closing tag

Is there a
<!DOCTYPE

that does allow you to use meta link tags in the middle of a page?
Are W3 a bunch of tossers with to much time on their hands and what benefits are there to making your site error free.

eg, im really lazy and I never ever freakn ever close my <p> tags, it just doesnt happen for me ( I use textpad ) it works fine.

should I really care about people using opera or safari, if they want to use random browsers should it mean I have to spend 3 hours correcting code so they can view it.

can someone point me to a site that doesnt have errors because I havnt seen one yet.

thanks
  • righteous_trespasser
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Post 3+ Months Ago

http://www.ohdesignx.com ... lol
  • Steven D
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Post 3+ Months Ago

ahh swt ty
  • righteous_trespasser
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lol ... I just thought you were calling me "sweety" upon the first glance ... nice ... anyway, pleasure sweety!
  • Steven D
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Post 3+ Months Ago

rofl, minds in the gutter aye.

I read the other post, im going to go and clean up my code, i have never once closed a paragraph tag, ever, so its going to take a while .....
  • SpooF
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Post 3+ Months Ago

You dont even have to leave this webpage to find one, your on one right now! lol

Ozzu is valid under

HTML 4.01 Transitional

along with the standard css validation.
  • Steven D
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Post 3+ Months Ago

mine says there are 17 warnings so it still hasnt got the tick :(
  • Bogey
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Under SGML Parser this page right now currently has 1 error... using the validation tool mentioned in my developing blog.
  • Bigwebmaster
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Bogey wrote:
Under SGML Parser this page right now currently has 1 error... using the validation tool mentioned in my developing blog.


Fixed, was missing an alt tag.

Steven D wrote:
mine says there are 17 warnings so it still hasnt got the tick :(


What validator are you using? I am using:

http://validator.w3.org/
  • Steven D
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I am using the FF plugin which is uses the same validation as the website but it does it for you automatically when you view a page.

The link is

http://users.skynet.be/mgueury/mozilla/

cudos go to Bogey, his find.
  • Benat
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Well it seems to incorrect steven, cos I have ran the validator on about 5 or so pages within Ozzu and they are all valid with no warnings at all.
  • Steven D
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Result: 0 errors / 35 warnings

line 112 column 5 - Warning: <a> attribute "target" has invalid value "_userwww"
line 224 column 5 - Warning: <a> attribute "target" has invalid value "_userwww"
line 393 column 5 - Warning: <a> attribute "target" has invalid value "_userwww"
line 502 column 5 - Warning: <a> attribute "target" has invalid value "_userwww"
line 128 column 1 - Warning: trimming empty <li>
line 131 column 1 - Warning: trimming empty <li>
line 156 column 1 - Warning: trimming empty <p>
line 210 column 1 - Warning: trimming empty <p>
line 212 column 1 - Warning: trimming empty <p>
line 214 column 1 - Warning: trimming empty <p>
line 240 column 1 - Warning: trimming empty <li>
line 243 column 1 - Warning: trimming empty <li>
line 373 column 1 - Warning: trimming empty <p>
line 375 column 1 - Warning: trimming empty <p>
line 380 column 1 - Warning: trimming empty <p>
line 382 column 1 - Warning: trimming empty <p>
line 408 column 1 - Warning: trimming empty <li>
line 411 column 1 - Warning: trimming empty <li>
line 436 column 1 - Warning: trimming empty <p>
line 438 column 1 - Warning: trimming empty <p>
line 440 column 1 - Warning: trimming empty <p>
line 799 column 21 - Warning: trimming empty <div>
line 800 column 20 - Warning: trimming empty <div>
line 801 column 24 - Warning: trimming empty <div>
line 804 column 25 - Warning: trimming empty <div>
line 870 column 24 - Warning: trimming empty <div>
line 872 column 24 - Warning: trimming empty <div>
line 99 column 4 - Warning: <a> cannot copy name attribute to id
line 151 column 4 - Warning: <a> cannot copy name attribute to id
line 205 column 4 - Warning: <a> cannot copy name attribute to id
line 263 column 4 - Warning: <a> cannot copy name attribute to id
line 315 column 4 - Warning: <a> cannot copy name attribute to id
line 365 column 4 - Warning: <a> cannot copy name attribute to id
line 431 column 4 - Warning: <a> cannot copy name attribute to id
line 489 column 4 - Warning: <a> cannot copy name attribute to id
Info: Doctype given is "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
Info: Document content looks like HTML 4.01 Transitional


This is just what it says in the plugin, seems way to anal if you ask me.

also there are 19 errors in the google ads frame and 30 in the other ads frame. Thats what initially sparked me to ask, because if google has errors, and my site has errors but has been indexed perfectally and all cached pages look fine then seems just the guys @ W3 are the type who glow when you turn of the lights.
  • joebert
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Wanna see somthing really cool ? :D

Even if you don't set it up, the package full of DOCTYPES (.tar.gz) is nice to have for reference.


My blog failed with 496 errors, that's just downright embarrasing !
  • Steven D
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Post 3+ Months Ago

how do you know which one you need. I dont have a doctype tag @ the top of my pages, and I have to go and find which one i need in a few mins.

I am using html code that I learnt like 3 years ago (I use textpad so i just type the tags) and i am running iis6 because I use a lot of vb code.
  • joebert
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Steven, you should look into either an HTML4 or XHTML1 - DOCTYPE. Most likely the transitional AKA loose version of either.
  • Steven D
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Post 3+ Months Ago

I just dont want to have to go through my code and edit my tags like,

<p class=mid-text>Blah Blah <p />

at the moment I just have </p>, infact I dont even have the </p>, just the opening tag.

And also changes like

<font height: 8pt> is just going to be a pain in the arse.

I think what I will do is complete the site I am working on, then learn and rebuild the site in PHP and use HTML4.

When I first designed the site it was suppose to be 12 pages, now including the backend its over 200 pages and there is a lot of patching. So finishing this version so I know what it has to be able to do, then do it again in php.

I dabbled in php, i liked how you could change the include files without having to reload the page, I can see that being very helpful.

I stopped using dream weaver becuase it kept inserting *plum* into my code that I didnt think I wanted there (eg doctype) I am now regreting that decision :(
  • digitalMedia
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Steven D wrote:
I just dont want to have to go through my code and edit my tags like,

<p class=mid-text>Blah Blah <p />


This is incorrect. In the XHTML reformulation, <p></p> is correct. The closure form you've cited is for self-closing tags such as <img />

Steven D wrote:
at the moment I just have </p>, infact I dont even have the </p>, just the opening tag.


*slaps wrist* :)

Steven D wrote:
I dabbled in php, i liked how you could change the include files without having to reload the page, I can see that being very helpful.


All web-based server-side scripting languages have the ability to "include". ;)

Steven D wrote:
I stopped using dream weaver becuase it kept inserting *plum* into my code that I didnt think I wanted there (eg doctype) I am now regreting that decision :(


You know, you can create your own document templates in Dreamweaver.

Good luck!
  • Bogey
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Post 3+ Months Ago

Benat wrote:
Well it seems to incorrect steven, cos I have ran the validator on about 5 or so pages within Ozzu and they are all valid with no warnings at all.


Let's get it straight... he is using HTMLTidy as a parser... he had told me that in another post I and maybe we are using SGML parser... the same parser that validator.w3.org uses...
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