What is hacking, anyway?

I'm hoping that this might be the first "hacking" post at OZZU the mods won't remove. I think (knowing how I think, they would defer to Bigwebmaster to decide). First let's define hacking. This is how webopedia defines it:



Now on the other hand, I have always been told that the term we associate with "hacking" is derived from the old-timers who started this whole mess who simply "hacked" away at problems until they solved them.

I am particularly impressed with this web page:
http://thetechmag.com/index.php/news/ma ... event=view

Specifically the following quotes from the page itself:



And the following paragraph:


I also particularly appreciate his statement about "old timers" which in some respects is identified with the Code of Ethics posted immediately following:




What are the hacker's code of ethics, specifically?
You can read them here:
http://courses.cs.vt.edu/~cs3604/lib/Wo ... .Code.html

So, by now, many of you are scratching your heads wondering what in the world is ATNO posting all of this about. I'm posting it because I have a problem and have speant several months trying to resolve it. I'm posting this because over the years I've found that sometimes solutions to problems aren't always as easy as Google this, and Google that.

Here is the problem I'm refering to if you want to afford the time to look at it:
http://www.ozzu.com/mswindows-forum/ozzu-page-load-problems-resolved-ummm-resolved-again-t20431.html

It's probably not important at all to any except me, and many have tried to help over time, but everytime I think I found the solution, it just resurfaces.

Tonight I took a closer look and discovered that every time I have a delay on page load with OZZU (or anywhere else on the internet for that matter -- I just notice it most at OZZU) I have timouts with several of my ISP provider's nodes (i.e. Comcast)


So at this point, some of you are going to be asking "Why is ATNO posting something like this?"

The reason is this issue:

http://www.ozzu.com/mswindows-forum/ozzu-page-load-problems-resolved-ummm-resolved-again-t20431.html

It's been driving me nuts for months! I thought I had it resolved several times by mistakes I may have made on my own system, but tonight I narrowed it down to my ISP (i.e. Comcast)

I used several methods to get to the point that I am now. One was the command prompt "tracert", and the other was an old freeware verssion of NeoTrace I have on one of my older computers. (as a side note, it saddens me a bit to find out tonight that McAfee bought out NeoWorx's NeoTrace and now call it something like "McAfee Visual Trace and charge about $20 US for it....discovered here: http://radified.com/Software/neotrace_radified.htm and confirmed here: http://www.mcafeestore.com/dr/sat3/ec_M ... CACHE_ID=0 )


By immediately running tracert when I got a hangup on an OZZU connection when I tried to change pages or make a post, I discovered that my connection hangup was in the first six nodes via the following two tracert's"





Immediately after OZZU began it's display, the timouts ceased and I was able to resume at OZZU and my DOS Command line.

After a Review of the IP's that timed out, I determined that they are all owned by AT&T Worldnet. What's up with that? I thout I was on Comcast? Nothing happened until my ping hit the first backbone router in Philadelphia, which oddly enough is also owned by AT&T Worldnet.

So what's my point? Well...first, I would very much like to solve my afforementioned problem without having to call Comcast tech support, although it appears that I will probably have to. 2nd, I wanted to demonstrate that hacking is not a game for script kiddies....it's something prfessionals do intelligently to fix things. Whether or not I'm holding to the true definition of hacking? --I don't really care, but to me -- this is what the "old time school" is all about.

So what of you that are thinking, "Does ATNO think he's some kind of elite hacker?" Nope -- I'm just a guy that has a problem and wants to fix it and am going about it as methodically as I can. But I also wanted to make a point on behalf of all us mods and Bigwebmaster, that hacking isn't all about being a script kiddy and writing viruses and wanting/needing cracks to pirated software. It's about having problems and learning how to understand your computer enough to fix them.

Hackers == good guys
Crackers == bad guys

Well I agree with axe, Originally when I knew nothing about computers I associated hackers with an author of malicious code. Then later I came to understand that there where black hat, white hat, and grey hat types.

But more recently my definition has changes somewhat, Now I associate it with someone that just modifies a program to make it more useful--beyond the spectrum of its intended use. This can also include mofifying hardware.

Well, I think you're safe from the 'hacker' moniker ATNO.

The asterisks in your traceroute signifies that those hosts did not send 'ICMP Time Exceeded' messages. This could be simply due to those hosts running MIT C Gateway code, which does not forward those messages, or perhaps the ttl is simply too small to reach you. There's also a bug in the BSD 4.2 and 4.3 base network code which that sends an unreachable message using whatever ttl remains in the original datagram.

I would run a trace to another location to see if your provider reissues those time exceeds. It's odd that the first hop should send that, but not unheard of. In fact, everyone in your providers network could be doing that, hence the multiple time exceeds. You hit the ATT network, because they are, no doubt, the backone provider for your provider.

If you run it again, and those asterisks show back up to a different location, then it's your network provider, if not... if they actually show, then something weird is going on. Perhaps valid time exceeds, in which case you have a reason to call your provider. You should not truly exceed your ICMP timeout to the first hop.

You say you are on Comcast? Did you ever load their software on your Windows machine? They used to -- much like Cox -- load throttling code on your machine when their software was installed. There are several cable tweaks out there for Windows machine which I have seen in some cases, dramatically increase your d/l speeds. (MTU changes, maxwin, etc. ). If needs be, I can locate those for you, I have them saved in bookmarks at home - not here at the office. Just let me know.

As for your issue, well I would need to know a lot more about it, but would be willing to help you work through it when I can. Obviously, now that I am in the office, I was only able to briefly scan your previous postings as well as this one, so I don't feel comfortable proffering aide as yet. Once I get home, I should have some time to sit down and check a few things... if you would like.

As a preemptive measure, I ran traces from several (35 or so) key locations around the globe I have available to me, and found no delays -- bear in mind these are all on major backbones though.

Anyway, let me know.

Cheers.

The arbitrary moniker of "good" and "bad" are not quite so black and white -- no pun intended.

Just because someone breaks a network, does not make them "bad"; just because someone writes some useful code, does not make them "good".

There is such a thing as 'ethical hacking', or 'ethical cracking' if you are a hard liner.

If someone finds a hole, then writes an exploit for that hole, does that make him or her inherently evil? Or should the company which released the software despite previous knowledge of said bug, liable?
If it had not been for the hackers so often condemned by society, we would not have the level of security we now possess. The statement might be proposed, "well if there were no hackers, we would not require security." Yeah, right. People are naturally curious; hackers are just better at satisfying that curiosity.
Now, that having been said there are times when hacking is plain wrong. Whacking my customer database so you can steal numbers for credit cards is reprehensible. However, as a professional, not protecting my network is also reprehensible; maybe more-so.
It's a test of who's kung foo is better.

Maybe a good read would be the original "Hacker's Manifesto", from Phrack, circa 1986.

http://www.mala.bc.ca/~soules/media112/hacker.htm.

Nuff said.

Cheers.

Thanks Daemonguy. Any suggestions at all would be appreciated. Actually, when I looked at that this morning, I realised I inadvertantly pasted the same trace twice. The second one I intended to post Only the 1st three hops timed out, and I got replies from every other one. I purposely ran the traces at the same moment I was having problems connecting to OZZU's server. When things are working smoothly, I get replies from all hops except the first one no matter what route it takes. I'm thinking that's possibly my router anyway, so not worried about that.

I do not have this issue at work. Both machines run Win2K. My home computer is hand built, Intel Celeron 1.0 Ghz, 128MB SDRAM, connected on Comcast cable via a Siemens router. I notice the problem most with OZZU because I'm here frequently in the evenings, but it is not limited to OZZU. When the problem occurs, it affects any page I try to visit. It's random, and can be severe enough at times that everything 404's. Wait a minute or two and back to normal.

I'm just wondering if it's just do to heavy traffic on my node? Of course, I could just call Comcast about it, but where's the fun in that, eh?

Thanks again.

Sad story atno !!
I did read your link to your problem, i had a simular problem but only with one website, its fine now but a pain for a while...glad yours is ok now.
Suzie.

Ahh, your 'router' is your first hop? That makes sense actually.

Would you happen to have a linux or unix box on your network? Would make things easier.

I'll play catch-up later and we'll see what we can find.

Cheers.

No Daemonguy, I don't. I haven't had time to install linux on a separate partition, and probably won't for some time.

Well i have just had a real shock at a web site...

I had posted here some lovely examples of Swish effects, anyway i found the guys web site, had a look around like you do, i came accross apage that gave several links to what he had, and he said earlier his website is closing down, i think he was ill or something !

So on i went to his chat thing, it did'nt say register from what i could see, it said post a message..i did then a box came up " your ip is logged if you try to hack the script again we will imform your isp"!!
OMG, is that hacking ??? someone best tell me, i'm in total shock here.

suzie.

I wouldn't worry about it suzie - probably somebody's idea of a scare tactic to keep people from viewing their source code.

well atno, its upset me a great deal.
1/ i never had that happen to me anywhere before, and i certainly don't have a clue how to hack anyone, it was just a message to say i hope he soon returns, he said on his first page he is gone for a time , does'nt know for how long, he's ill i think, then i clicked send !
2/ i'm annoyed because i was putting..have put his excellent work in the forums here as an example.
But its shook me up a bit atno...thanks.
suzie.

Depends..

Somebody who does that on their own system, writes a patch to cover the hole, writes an exploit with the intent of having people use it to test their own sites, then releases it to the world is a "hacker" (hence "good guy")

Somebody who does that on somebody else's system, without permission, then writes the patch to cover their own ass whilst telling nobody and leaving the rest of the world still open to attack would be a "cracker" - once he'd had his fun and got bored, he'd release his exploit to the world for others to screw people over (hence "bad guy").

At least, according to my way of thinking

That is, as ATNO says, hardly hacking and quite easily circumvented. When you publish content on the web, you have to assume people will view your 'code'.
This is, again, as ATNO correctly states, a blatent scare tactic and hardly worth concerning yourself over. Yes, they can log your IP -- which I am guessing is dynamic DHCP assigned from your ISP. The likelihood that your ISP would then cough up customer information based upon that IP and time-range logs is slim. It would take a court order,which itself must be justified, to force them to comply. By then, I would venture to say, the logs concerning your particular record would most likely be sent to /dev/null.

I wouldn't worry at all. If that sort of thing concerns you though, you can use services like anonymizer.com to make your initial connection anonymous -- they can't trace your IP.

Cheers.

Thanks Daemonguy,
Yes i have heard of annoymiser, also static, dynamic, also had experience of someone else having global so confusing all the different ip's.

I think i have the static, it rarely if ever changes, the global, well that can change the ip with every post, from what i know of that from google its quite expensive option...i feel ok now but i'll be more careful next time.

suzie.